“Stop making Airbnb more money. Do not ever send someone another Airbnb link. You are the problem. Owning your customer is the most important part of any successful business strategy.” This raw admission from Nikkei Rosenberg, owner of Staylah Rentals with over 100 properties under management, captures exactly what’s broken—and what’s possible—in our industry. While most hosts chase occupancy rates and revenue per available room, Nikkei has built her empire on something far more valuable: unshakeable brand standards that turn first-time guests into repeat customers. In this episode, Nikkei reveals how she scaled from managing individual properties to commanding a portfolio across multiple Southeast markets, all while maintaining the kind of consistency that makes guests choose her brand over browsing endless Airbnb listings. Her approach isn’t just about better hospitality—it’s about creating a direct booking engine powered by trust. Summary and Highlights 🌟 Meet Nikkei Rosenberg Nikkei Rosenberg brings nearly two decades of hospitality expertise to the short-term rental industry, starting her journey at just 17 years old in St. Augustine, Florida—long before Airbnb existed. This early foundation in direct bookings shaped her philosophy that property owners should control their guest relationships, not surrender them to platforms. After building the Southeast market for a major national management company and completing over 500 property setups, Nikkei launched Staylah Rentals with her business partner. The Florida market alone grew from zero to 60 properties in just 18 months, driven by organic referrals and a reputation for operational excellence. As both a real estate agent covering the Florida market and a property management company owner, Nikkei serves clients from initial property acquisition through daily operations. Her unique perspective spans the entire investment lifecycle, helping operators avoid common pitfalls while building sustainable rental businesses. Recently approved as a Marriott Bonvoy Homes and Villas partner across all 100 properties, Staylah Rentals represents the new generation of professional vacation rental brands that compete on standards, not just price. Connect with Nikkei: Follow her authentic journey on Instagram @investwithnikkei and learn more about Staylah Rentals at staylah.com 🎯 The Three Pillars of Brand Standards Visibility: Making Your Brand Impossible to Ignore Building brand standards in short-term rentals starts with visibility—ensuring guests encounter your brand at every touchpoint. Nikkei’s approach goes far beyond basic property signage: Physical Presence: Every Staylah property features branded QR codes, house manuals, area guides, and welcome signage. Their maintenance van is wrapped, the operations manager drives a branded Tesla, and all employees wear Staylah gear when on-site. Digital Consistency: Guest communication consistently references the “Staylah care team,” ensuring the brand name appears in every interaction while staying compliant with platform restrictions. Retargeting Strategy: Year-round marketing keeps Staylah visible to past guests, building the kind of brand recall that drives repeat bookings and referrals. This level of visibility creates professionalism that guests notice. When branded maintenance staff appear during a stay, it signals that this isn’t just another rental—it’s part of a larger operation that takes itself seriously. Consistency: Creating Predictable Excellence The second pillar focuses on consistency across every brand element. For direct bookings to work, guests need confidence that choosing your brand means choosing a predictable level of service. Visual Identity: Staylah maintains strict standards for logo usage, colors, fonts, and tone across all properties and communications. This consistency helps guests immediately recognize the brand experience they’re entering. Operational Standards: Every property meets identical criteria for amenities, cleanliness, and maintenance. Guests don’t have to research individual properties—they book the Staylah experience knowing what they’ll receive. Communication Protocols: From initial inquiry through post-stay follow-up, every interaction follows established patterns that reinforce brand values and expectations. This consistency particularly matters for direct booking conversions because it eliminates the uncertainty that often drives guests back to familiar platforms. Quality: Delivering Hotel-Level Standards in Custom Homes The final pillar combines the personalized experience of vacation rentals with the reliability standards guests expect from established hotel brands. Property Selection: Staylah only manages properties that meet their strict criteria for location, condition, and owner commitment to maintenance excellence. Amenity Standards: Every detail receives attention, from sheet thread counts and mattress quality to ensuring guests understand how to operate all property features. Preventive Maintenance: Regular safety checks, deep cleaning protocols, and proactive maintenance prevent issues before they impact guest experiences. Guest Experience Design: Each property is staged and stocked to create that “wow, this is incredible” moment when guests arrive. This quality focus recently earned Staylah approval as a Marriott Bonvoy Homes and Villas partner—recognition that their standards align with international hospitality brands. 💡 Key Insights for Property Managers Start with Property Standards, Not Marketing Many operators focus on driving traffic before establishing consistent quality. Nikkei’s approach prioritizes operational excellence first: “We’ve been implementing EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) and really defining KPIs, creating accountability structures, and defining roles.” This foundation work pays dividends when marketing efforts scale. Instead of managing individual property reputations, operators can promote a single brand promise across their entire portfolio. Stop Driving Traffic to OTA Links One of Nikkei’s strongest tactical recommendations: “Stop making Airbnb more money. Do not ever send someone another Airbnb link.” She even refused to share Airbnb listings with a potential client who requested them, explaining how clicks without conversions hurt algorithm performance. For operators serious about building direct booking success, this mindset shift is crucial. Every social media post, email, or conversation should direct prospects to owned channels where you can capture contact information and build relationships. Build Community Relationships for Organic Growth Nikkei’s decade in BNI networking demonstrates the power of consistent community involvement. Her philosophy of “givers gain” created the referral network that fueled Staylah’s rapid growth: “I just love being able to add value to people without putting money in someone’s pocket.” This authentic relationship-building approach works particularly well for maximizing value through networking, as it fosters trust and credibility that paid advertising cannot replicate. Building genuine community connections also supports growing direct bookings with consistency that doesn’t rely solely on platform algorithms. 📚 Nikkei’s Book

“Digital media is not going away. When business owners are shying away from doing something uncomfortable, putting their business out on social media, you have to meet the world where they’re at.” What would you do if your social media following could generate 71% direct bookings on just one property? Brittany Magsig, better known as Mountain Mama on TikTok, turned this dream into reality by authentically sharing her love for the Smoky Mountains and building genuine connections with over half a million followers. From conducting virtual therapy sessions as a school social worker to managing a thriving vacation rental through social media marketing strategies, Brittany’s journey demonstrates how authentic content creation can drive direct bookings without expensive marketing campaigns or complex systems. Summary and Highlights 💌 A Letter from Brittany Magsig Hi! We just launched Mountain Mama’s Cabins for guests to book this week. We’ve been vetting and bringing on new cabins for guests to enjoy through our platform, which now connects with my community of over 500,000 Smoky Mountain followers. When my own cabin was fully booked and filled to occupancy, I still wanted to find purpose in creating Smoky Mountain content — and that’s when Mountain Mama’s Cabins was born. Instead of going against the numbers with today’s high interest rates and saturated market prices, I started recruiting cabin owners who believed in my vision to list with me. You can find us and book at @mountainmamascabins on TikTok and Instagram, and at Mountain Mama Cabins on Facebook! 👩‍💼 Meet Brittany Magsig: From Social Work to Social Media Success Brittany Magsig brings a unique perspective to vacation rental marketing, combining her clinical background with creative storytelling. As a licensed social worker (LMSW/LCSW) who worked in schools for 10 years, she developed exceptional communication skills that now serve her content creation and guest relations. Her transformation began in 2020 when she and her husband purchased a cabin in the Smoky Mountains during COVID lockdowns. What started as a personal escape became a profitable venture that allowed her to leave her traditional career and build a business around her passion for hospitality and the mountains she loves. Today, Brittany manages her own cabin with exceptional direct booking rates while co-hosting six additional properties and helping other cabin owners increase their visibility through her Mountain Mama Cabins platform. Connect with Brittany: 🎯 The Psychology Behind Authentic Content Creation Brittany’s background in social work became her secret weapon for creating relatable content. Her clinical training taught her to read people’s perspectives and deliver difficult messages with empathy—skills that translate directly to understanding her audience’s needs and creating content that resonates. “I feel like a lot of what I do online is ministry. I want people to know they’re not alone,” Brittany explains, describing how her personal branding approach goes beyond business promotion to genuine connection. Her vulnerability breakthrough came after appearing on Dr. Phil to help her father with addiction struggles. That experience taught her that being authentically herself—flaws and all—creates stronger connections than any perfect, curated content ever could. 📱 From 58 Followers to Half a Million: The TikTok Strategy When Brittany started her TikTok account in 2021, she had just 58 followers and felt embarrassed about her slow growth. Following advice from content creation coaches, she committed to posting 3-4 times daily about the Smoky Mountains, dedicating exactly one hour after her school social work job to content creation. The platform evolution mirrors her personal growth: “TikTok was literally a perfect mix of utilizing it for my creativity, my expression, and also connecting with people. It’s the best of all worlds,” she reflects on her platform choice. Her content strategy avoids mainstream buzzwords and focuses on genuine storytelling. Rather than chasing every trend, she dedicates 10-15 minutes daily to consuming content strategically, looking for sounds and concepts that align with authentic stories she wants to tell. 🏔️ Building Trust Through Transparent Business Practices Achieving 71% direct bookings didn’t happen overnight. Brittany’s success stems from treating every social media interaction as relationship building for repeat guests rather than simple marketing. Her original booking process, while time-intensive, built incredible trust: “I would even FaceTime them. Some people wanted to make sure I’m legitimate. People trusted me after showing up every day online,” Brittany explains how consistency built credibility. Now using Hospitable for streamlined operations, she maintains the personal touch while scaling efficiently. 🤖 Strategic AI Use Without Losing Authenticity Brittany uses AI tools like ChatGPT strategically for business planning and idea generation, paying $20 monthly for enhanced features. However, she draws clear boundaries around content creation. “I don’t use AI within my content because I think there is such a thing to be said about transparency, authenticity, seeing a real person to relate it to your life,” she emphasizes. Her approach to AI mirrors best practices for hosts: This balanced approach allows her to leverage efficiency tools while maintaining the authentic voice that built her following. 📈 Scaling Success: From Personal Brand to Business Platform Recognizing that other Smoky Mountain cabin owners struggled with bookings while she consistently filled her calendar, Brittany launched Mountain Mama Cabins with software developer partner Andrew. This platform allows quality cabin owners to benefit from her established audience trust and 1,000+ daily website visitors. Her expansion strategy demonstrates community-driven growth: 💡 Key Takeaways for Direct Booking Success Mindset Foundations “Being comfortable being uncomfortable” remains Brittany’s core advice. She advocates for: Content Strategy Essentials Direct Booking Fundamentals Quality product comes first—excellent guest experiences enable confident marketing. Brittany recommends: 📚 Rapid Fire Insights Recommended Reading: The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fck* by Mark Manson “When you have that mindset of not giving a crap within reason, your problems really start to dissipate,” Brittany shares about this transformative read that helped her embrace authenticity. Essential Mindset: “Don’t betray yourself in the process of being you. Whatever that looks like in self-expression, don’t be harmful, don’t be malicious, but just being you.” Success Formula: Good product + personal

“There’s so much incremental bookings our industry could be getting if we just did a better job of managing rates throughout the season. More than anything, drive additional revenue over and above new amenities, new photos—it’s just do a better job of how you’re setting rates.” – Jamie Lane The short-term rental landscape has undergone dramatic shifts since 2020, creating both challenges and opportunities for independent hosts building direct booking businesses. From mobile bookings now representing 58% of Airbnb’s traffic to supply growth slowing to just 4% in 2025, understanding these data-driven trends isn’t just helpful—it’s essential for staying competitive. In this comprehensive discussion, we explore the critical insights every host needs to navigate today’s market, optimize their direct booking strategy, and establish sustainable revenue streams that are not entirely dependent on OTA algorithms. Summary and Highlights 🎯 Meet Jamie Lane: The Data-Driven Voice of Short-Term Rentals Jamie Lane serves as Chief Economist and SVP of Analytics at AirDNA, the industry’s leading short-term rental data intelligence platform tracking millions of properties worldwide. With over 14 years of experience in hospitality economics, Jamie brings a unique perspective as both an industry analyst and an active STR host in North Georgia’s mountain markets. His groundbreaking contributions earned him the Innovator/Disruptor award at the 2023 Shortyz Awards, while his market insights regularly appear in the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, and Bloomberg. Beyond the data, Jamie co-hosts AirDNA’s STR Data Lab podcast and has been documenting his own hosting journey on YouTube, applying market intelligence to real-world property management decisions. Before joining AirDNA, Jamie spent a decade at CBRE, leading research and forecasting teams. He holds a Bachelor of Science in Economics from the University of Georgia and a Master of Science in Business Economics from Georgia State University. 📊 The Great Channel Shift: From Direct Dominance to OTA Growth The pandemic has fundamentally altered guest booking behavior, creating lasting changes that continue to shape the industry. Prior to 2020, many large property managers generated the majority of their bookings through direct channels. Today, OTAs command increasingly larger market share—but the story has an interesting twist. While larger property managers have seen their direct booking percentages decline, smaller hosts are actually trending in the opposite direction. The proliferation of user-friendly PMS platforms, such as Guesty and Hostaway, among others, has democratized direct booking technology that was previously accessible only to enterprise-level operators. “If you think back in 2015, like I was hosting and for me to get a direct booking website, like Guesty didn’t exist, Hostway didn’t exist. Like all these large PMS companies that we sort of take advantage of now just didn’t exist,” Jamie explains. This technology gap meant most individual hosts had no practical path to direct bookings beyond building everything from scratch. 📱 Mobile-First Booking Revolution Perhaps the most striking trend shaping guest behavior is the explosive growth of mobile bookings. Airbnb disclosed that 58% of their Q1 bookings came through mobile devices—up from 54% the previous year. This isn’t just a slight preference shift; it represents a fundamental change in how travelers discover and book accommodations. For hosts building direct booking websites, this trend requires a mobile-first design approach. Sites that feel clunky on mobile devices or fail to optimize for smaller screens risk losing nearly half their potential bookings to competitors with superior mobile experiences. The demographic driving this shift skews younger, with travelers in their twenties and thirties showing a strong preference for completing entire booking flows on mobile devices. These guests don’t just browse on mobile—they research, compare, and complete transactions entirely through their phones. 🏔️ Supply Growth Slowdown: Good News for Existing Hosts After years of explosive inventory growth reaching 20-25% annually during peak pandemic periods, supply growth has dramatically decelerated to approximately 4% in 2025. This slowdown isn’t due to decreased demand—RevPAR remains at all-time highs—but rather reflects challenging investment economics. Home values have increased roughly 50% over three years, while interest rates jumped from 3% to peaks around 8.5%. Meanwhile, STR revenue has grown approximately 30% over the same period. The math simply doesn’t work for many potential investors who previously found attractive cash-on-cash returns in the 20-40% range. “Most investors now are like, the only reason why they’re able to make it make sense is because of the tax benefit. If you’re just underwriting the cash flows and what the investment’s gonna take, unless you have that tax benefit, it doesn’t make sense,” Jamie notes. For existing hosts, this supply constraint creates favorable operating conditions. Less new competition means better occupancy rates and pricing power—assuming hosts stay competitive with their data-driven STR strategies. 💰 The Revenue Management Gap: Leaving Money on the Table Despite the widespread availability of dynamic pricing tools, only about 25% of hosts actively use revenue management platforms. This creates enormous opportunities for data-driven hosts willing to optimize their pricing strategies beyond simple seasonal adjustments. Markets like Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge, where 85% of listings use revenue management solutions, demonstrate both the competitive advantage and necessity of sophisticated pricing. Hosts in these markets who don’t actively monitor competitor rates and adjust pricing can quickly lose bookings to more agile operators. “There are so many incremental bookings our industry could be getting if we just did a better job of managing rates throughout the season,” Jamie emphasizes. The impact exceeds that of new amenities, professional photography, or other property improvements. 🌍 Economic Headwinds and Guest Behavior Changes Several macroeconomic factors are creating booking pattern shifts that hosts need to understand: Compressed Booking Windows: Guests are waiting longer to commit to travel plans, with booking windows in mountain markets declining approximately 8% year-over-year. This reflects economic uncertainty and guests’ reluctance to commit to future spending. International Travel Trends: American travelers are increasingly choosing overseas destinations, with demand for Japan up 30% year-over-year. Meanwhile, Asian travelers to the US remain 50% below pre-pandemic levels, particularly impacting West Coast markets. Income Tier Differences: The booking slowdown primarily affects budget-tier

The best way to do this is you should really have the core and foundation of your business is that direct booking model. You also actually need to maintain a presence within the OTAs… I actually think the best way to do it is you have to have all three legs of that stool.” Building a hospitality business that generates 95% direct bookings sounds impossible—especially in a town with just 87 residents. But Blake Neitzke, a West Point graduate and former Special Forces officer, proved it’s not only possible but sustainable. In this episode of Booked Solid, Blake shares the direct booking strategies that transformed a distressed 7-room boutique hotel into a 15-key destination that books solid year-round, often 18 months in advance. What makes Blake’s approach unique isn’t just his impressive conversion rates—it’s his balanced perspective on OTA management, which he maintains while remaining independent. His story provides a blueprint for operators seeking to establish enduring hospitality brands without compromising growth or guest reach. Summary and Highlights 👨‍💼 Meet Blake Neitzke Blake Neitzke is a 2012 West Point graduate who served 10 years in the Army, including time as an infantry officer and Special Forces officer with the 3rd Special Forces Group. In 2019, Blake and his family purchased a distressed boutique hotel property in Round Top, Texas—a town with a population of just 87 people that happens to host the country’s largest antique shows twice yearly. Since then, Blake has expanded from 7 traditional hotel rooms to 15 keys across multiple properties, including renovated 1880s farmhouses, ground-up construction, and strategic acquisitions. His property serves everyone from University of Texas corporate retreats to intimate family reunions, maintaining occupancy rates that keep them booked solid through 2026. 🎯 Key Takeaways: The Foundation of 95% Direct Bookings Starting with 100% Direct Bookings Blake’s approach was unconventional from day one. When he purchased the property, there was no website, no property management software—just a landline and paper bookings. Instead of immediately rushing to OTAs, Blake built his direct booking foundation first: This foundation-first approach gave Blake control over his brand narrative and guest relationships before introducing OTA dependencies. The “Three-Legged Stool” Philosophy Blake advocates for a balanced approach to booking channel management. While direct bookings form the foundation, he maintains a strategic OTA presence because “there are just some people who are comfortable with Airbnb. They like the additional layer of security.” His channel distribution strategy focuses on: Social Media as a Non-Negotiable Trust Builder Blake emphasizes that social media isn’t optional for modern hospitality businesses. Guests are conducting thorough research across multiple platforms to verify legitimacy: “They go to Google and look at reviews, then they go to TripAdvisor, then they look at your website, then they’re gonna go to your social media… Once they’ve been able to vet you through multiple different mediums, it gives them confidence that they’re gonna have a good experience.” This multi-platform verification process is why building trust on your direct booking site is essential for conversion success. This process is why consistent branding and active social presence are essential for direct booking success. Cash Flow Management for Forward Bookings One critical aspect Blake learned through experience is managing pre-paid reservations. With bookings extending to summer 2026, he’s managing over $100,000 in guest deposits—money that hasn’t been earned yet. His approach includes: Asset Selection Strategy: The Sweet Spot Blake’s portfolio evolution reveals a strategic preference for 1-2 bedroom standalone units over large single-family homes. This approach provides: 🏡 Building Relationships That Drive Repeat Business Blake’s success stems from treating hospitality as a relationship business first. Many guests have stayed 14-18 times over six years, and some have become personal friends. This relationship-first approach creates powerful word-of-mouth marketing and eliminates acquisition costs for repeat bookings. His guest retention strategies include: 💡 Rapid Fire Insights Best Book Recommendation: “Five Years to Freedom” by Nick Rowe – A story about mindset during extreme challenges that applies to business resilience. Mindset Advice: “No matter what you do, there’s going to be challenges and friction… Don’t shy away from the hardships and difficulties. Know and understand that it’s part of the process.” Tactical Direct Booking Tip: “Get on the camera and increase your social media presence. Put a toggle on your property management software where people can put in where they found you from, and use it as a metric that you track.” Connect with Blake: 🔗 Start Building Your Direct Booking Foundation Blake’s journey proves that sustainable direct booking success isn’t about choosing sides between OTAs and independence—it’s about building a strong foundation first, then strategically leveraging all available channels. His balanced approach, combined with relationship-focused hospitality, creates a business model that’s both profitable and personally fulfilling. Ready to build your own direct booking foundation? Start your CraftedStays trial and create a website that converts visitors into direct bookings, just like Blake’s success in Round Top, Texas. Transcription Blake: I personally think actually the answer’s in the middle. And so the best way to do this is you should really have the core and foundation of your business is that direct booking model. And you need to be stewarding that at all possibility. You also actually need to maintain a presence within the OTAs, and the reason being is there’s just some people who are comfortable with Airbnb. Blake: They like the additional layer of security and assuredness of the fact that the, there’s some vetting process in there, and so if you want to touch those customers. You have to have a presence on there. Same thing with Expedia. And so I actually think the best way to do it is you have to have all three legs of that stool. Blake: You can’t rely on just one where you shouldn’t. Try to rely on just one. Gil: Before we bring on my guest, I wanted to talk just a little bit about something that I’ve been hearing a lot from Host. I keep on hearing the same

“I would have to say collaboration, and that’s really been my go-to word for the year because I have noticed such a difference when I’m able to collaborate with others, whether it’s something for them or something that benefits me.” What if the secret to consistent direct bookings wasn’t found in complex digital funnels or expensive marketing campaigns, but right in your local community? Ashley Ramos, a licensed therapist turned short-term rental strategist, has discovered something remarkable: authentic partnerships with local businesses can become your most powerful direct booking engine. In this episode, you’ll discover how Ashley leverages her clinical social work background to create meaningful guest experiences while building a network of local partnerships that consistently drive bookings to her Arizona properties. From spa collaborations to brand partnerships, she’s proving that community-first strategies can outperform traditional marketing approaches. Summary and Highlights 👩‍⚕️ Meet Ashley Ramos: From Therapy Practice to STR Success Ashley Ramos brings a unique perspective to short-term rental hosting as both a licensed therapist and successful STR entrepreneur. With her background in clinical social work, Ashley specializes in creating guest experiences that prioritize relaxation and stress-free stays, particularly for families and groups seeking exceptional experiences. Based in smaller Arizona towns, Ashley has been building her STR portfolio for three years, focusing on properties that serve as alternatives to the high-competition markets of Scottsdale and Sedona. Her approach combines therapeutic principles with hospitality excellence, creating stays that guests remember long after checkout. As an Airbnb mentor and co-host, Ashley helps investors and homeowners optimize their properties for consistent 5-star reviews while building sustainable passive income streams. Her philosophy centers on treating every property with the same attention to detail, regardless of market size or location. 🎯 Key Takeaways: Community-Powered Direct Booking Strategy Local Business Partnerships Create Win-Win Scenarios Ashley’s most effective direct booking strategy involves partnering with local spas, hair salons, and med spas that attract relaxation-seeking guests. These businesses refer their clients to Ashley’s properties, while she provides exclusive discounts and recommendations to her guests. “I’ve been reaching out to a lot of spas, hair salons, nails, and especially unique med spas. Those that are attracting those types of guests who are looking for relaxation, who are looking for some exceptional experience.” This approach works particularly well in smaller markets where competition is less intense and authentic relationships carry more weight than in saturated metropolitan areas. Brand Collaborations Reduce Operating Costs By reaching out to brands whose products align with her guest experience goals, Ashley secures amenities and consumables at no cost. Her properties now feature branded sensory items, essential oils, and comfort products that guests recognize and appreciate. The strategy emerged from her love of unboxing videos and influencer content, leading her to think: “What if I could get brands on board with my Airbnbs? I wanna provide these guests a great experience, so why not get them on board?” For hosts looking to implement similar partnerships, consider reaching out to brands that align with your property’s theme and guest demographics. Creating memorable guest experiences often starts with thoughtful amenity selection. Storytelling Through Social Media Builds Authentic Connections Ashley emphasizes the power of bringing potential guests along your hosting journey through social media storytelling. By sharing property staging processes, design decisions, and behind-the-scenes content, hosts create emotional connections that translate into bookings. “When people know who you are, they’re really interested in what you do and what you have to offer, and they’re more willing to kind of book with you.” This approach particularly resonates with hosts who have smaller portfolios and want to leverage their personal brand for direct booking success. Friends and Family Networks Shouldn’t Be Overlooked Ashley actively engages her personal network, especially friends and family from her hometown in New Jersey, to spread awareness about her Arizona properties. This strategy works because many people haven’t considered destinations outside mainstream tourist areas. “I’m constantly telling my friends and family, Hey, you know, share, tell people about us. Let us know if people are looking for a stay.” 💡 Mindset Insights: The Power of Belief and Action When asked about mindset advice for starting something new, Ashley emphasized self-belief over external validation: “I am gonna go back to the just Do It and really believing in yourself. I think sometimes when we’re starting something new, we really want validation from everyone else. Should I do it? Should I start this? But it really comes from you within.” Her clinical background taught her that waiting for permission or approval often prevents action. For hosts considering launching direct booking websites or implementing new strategies, Ashley’s advice is clear: trust yourself and take action. 🚀 Rapid Fire Highlights 📚 Book Recommendation: “Buy Back Your Time” – Ashley credits this book with helping her understand the value of her time versus money, particularly in deciding which tasks to delegate versus handle personally. 🧠 Mindset Advice: “Just do it and really believe in yourself” – Stop waiting for external validation and trust your instincts when starting something new. ⚡ Tactical Takeaway: “Collaboration” – Ashley’s go-to strategy focuses on finding mutually beneficial partnerships where both parties can refer business to each other. 🔗 Connect with Ashley Ramos Instagram (Mentorship): @aramos_Instagram (STR Properties): @urbanvacaysTikTok: @ashleytravelssEmail: info@urbannestrental.com Ready to implement community partnerships for your direct bookings? Start by identifying local businesses that serve your target guest demographic and reach out with collaboration ideas. And if you’re ready to create a professional website that converts those referrals into bookings, visit CraftedStays.co to start your free trial today. Transcription Ashley: I would have to say collaboration, and that’s really been my go-to word for the year because I have noticed such a difference when I’m able to collaborate with others, whether it’s something for them or something that benefits me, it’s just, it’s been such a difference. In my business because even collaborating with other people and helping them in their business, you know, how can I help them or what can I

“We are 70% direct bookings. My mentality is we own our business through our website, and I treat the OTAs simply as marketing platforms, as billboards.” – Kerri Gibson When Kerri Gibson burned out from her corporate product management career in 2017, she never imagined she’d become the architect of a boutique hospitality brand generating 70% direct bookings across six properties and a newly acquired motel in Quebec. Her journey from reluctant sabbatical to hospitality entrepreneur reveals a masterclass in multi-channel marketing strategies that every serious host needs to understand. In this episode, you’ll discover the exact framework Kerri used to build her direct booking dominance, from her early website experiments to sophisticated email nurture campaigns that create 40% return guests. Plus, she shares the serendipitous media placement that generated thousands of dollars in marketing reach and why her product management background became her secret weapon in hospitality. 🎯 Meet Kerri Gibson: The Strategic Host Who Treats OTAs Like Billboards Kerri Gibson is a former corporate executive turned boutique hospitality entrepreneur, now leading a portfolio of design-forward chalets and a reimagined motel in Quebec under the Chalets Hygge brand. Passionate about creating guest-first experiences and building businesses with heart, she’s also a big believer in the power of direct bookings and smart tech integration. After 22 years in corporate product management for tax and accounting software companies, Kerri took a year-long sabbatical that changed everything. What started as a house flip project evolved into a thriving hospitality business that now generates enough revenue to allow her husband to retire from corporate life alongside her. Summary and Highlights 🏠 The Accidental Hospitality Empire: From Flip to Portfolio Kerri’s entry into hospitality wasn’t planned. During her career transition, she and her partner Philip bought a house to flip—a project that sparked an unexpected passion for renovation and guest experiences. The property that was meant to be flipped became their first short-term rental, marking the beginning of their hospitality journey. “We bought a house to flip. It seemed something that was always super interesting to us. And along the way I fell in love with the process of that, and it’s seven years later I have been able to retire my husband.” The transition from individual properties to boutique hotel wasn’t immediate. When COVID hit and market prices exploded, regulations began tightening around short-term rentals. Rather than retreat, Kerri and Philip strategically pivoted, exploring everything from cabin collections to glamping grounds before settling on their true calling: boutique motels where they could create unique personalities for each room. The breakthrough came when Kerri sent Philip to a conference focused on boutique motels and hotels. That exposure to industry best practices and the vision of what was possible transformed his perspective, aligning him with Kerri’s vision for their next chapter. 💡 The Product Manager’s Approach to Hospitality Investment One of Kerri’s most valuable insights comes from her ability to switch between investor and host mindsets throughout different phases of her business. This dual-persona approach, refined through her corporate product management experience, allows her to optimize for both financial returns and guest satisfaction. As Kerri explains: “When I’m buying as an investor, I’m looking at what’s my long-term return and how do I build equity? Once I turn it over to the property management side of our business, my hat has to shift into, now how do we be hosts? How do we create the right guest experience?” This strategic separation prevents the common trap of over-optimizing for revenue at the expense of hospitality. When deciding how to reinvest profits, Kerri considers both personas: Will this investment improve the guest experience and encourage repeat bookings, or should these funds go toward the next property acquisition? The product management mindset that Kerri developed over 22 years in corporate became her foundation for understanding everything from concept to realization to launch to financial optimization—skills that directly translated to building and scaling her hospitality business. 🚀 The 70% Direct Booking Strategy: A Multi-Channel Marketing Masterclass Kerri’s approach to direct booking success centers on treating OTAs as marketing channels rather than revenue dependencies. Her 70% direct booking rate comes from a sophisticated multi-channel strategy that includes: Website Foundation & Visual Content Strategy Kerri started building her first website in late 2018, focusing immediately on high-quality visual content. She contracted photographers through Upwork and invested in professional property photography that could be used across multiple marketing channels. “The visuals matter. And the visuals matter a lot for getting people engaged. I am not a visual content creator, so I started contracting with different photographers to take pictures, which actually worked quite well.” Strategic Influencer Marketing Rather than pursuing massive influencers, Kerri discovered that micro-influencers with 10,000-50,000 followers generated the best results for her outdoor-focused, dog-friendly properties. She looks for influencers who match her guest avatar: outdoor enthusiasts with dogs, typically from Ontario, Quebec, or the Northeast US. The key differentiator? She requires potential influencer partners to present with PowerPoint presentations, ensuring they understand her brand and can articulate the collaboration value. This vetting process has led to consistently successful partnerships that drive both bookings and high-quality user-generated content. Community Partnerships & Local Business Collaboration Kerri’s community-based marketing approach includes partnerships with local businesses that align with her guest experience vision. From bike rental shops offering guest discounts to Nordic spas using her properties for photo shoots, these relationships create cross-marketing opportunities that expand her reach without paid advertising costs. Tourism Board Engagement One of Kerri’s highest-leverage strategies involves active participation in her regional tourism board (DMO in the US). By paying for membership and staying engaged, she gains access to tourism marketing plans she can piggyback, plus opportunities to house media and influencers brought in by the board. The standout success story: Housing a Toronto Sun travel reporter for a week during high season. While she gave up $4,000 in potential revenue, the resulting article was syndicated across 12 Canadian newspapers, creating marketing reach that would have cost tens

Bring yourself to your hospitality journey. There’s no one else like you.” — Moriya Rockman The short-term rental industry is evolving beyond the simple host-guest transaction. Today’s successful vacation rental operators are building direct booking ecosystems, creating communities, and establishing themselves as destination ambassadors rather than just property managers. Few understand this transformation better than Moriya Rockman, founder of Smiling House Group and Villa Tracker, who has spent over 12 years pioneering luxury short-term rental channels that serve markets largely ignored by mainstream OTAs. In this episode of the Booked Solid podcast, Moriya shares her journey from being one of Airbnb’s earliest international hosts to creating two distinct B2B and B2C vacation rental platforms that connect luxury properties with high-value travelers and travel professionals. Her insights reveal how serious hosts can build independent booking brands that thrive beyond the limitations of traditional OTAs. Summary and Highlights 🌟 Meet Moriya Rockman: From Swiss Alps to Global Hospitality Innovation Calling in from the Swiss Alps, Moriya Rockman brings a unique perspective to the short-term rental industry. As a mother of seven and founder of not one but two hospitality platforms, she embodies the entrepreneurial spirit that drives innovation in our space. Professional Background: Moriya’s journey began with a serendipitous introduction to Airbnb through a friend from New York, leading to her becoming one of the platform’s first 7,000 hosts globally. Her early interactions with Airbnb’s founders, including strategic advisor Chip Conley, inspired her to explore luxury markets worldwide—a decision that would eventually lead to the creation of her own hospitality ecosystem. 🏗️ Building Beyond Traditional OTA Boundaries The Smiling House Story: When Airbnb Abandoned Luxury The origin of Smiling House illustrates a crucial lesson about diversifying your booking channels. When Airbnb initially encouraged Moriya to represent luxury properties globally, she began building a curated collection of high-end stays across Europe. However, when Airbnb pivoted away from luxury curation, Moriya found herself with a portfolio of premium properties and no platform to showcase them effectively. “In one moment, Airbnb dropped this whole concept of putting something around luxury together, and this is the moment where Smiling House started to be a company. We just had like a lot of properties with a lot of beautiful homes, and we said, okay, I guess we have to do it ourselves.” This pivot demonstrates the importance of owning your guest journey rather than depending entirely on external platforms. Today, Smiling House operates as a request-to-book platform, allowing for personalized guest matching and community-driven referrals—a model that prioritizes relationship-building over instant transactions. Villa Tracker: Bridging the Gap Between Travel Professionals and Vacation Rentals Recognizing another underserved market, Moriya launched Villa Tracker to connect vacation rental operators with travel professionals who had been effectively shut out of the vacation rental ecosystem. The platform emerged from a simple observation during COVID: travel agents, family offices, and corporate event planners were desperately seeking access to private homes but had no streamlined way to book them. Key Features of Villa Tracker: This approach addresses what many hosts struggle with: reaching new audiences beyond typical OTA traffic. By serving corporate retreats, high-end family gatherings, and luxury events, Villa Tracker opens revenue streams that traditional OTAs actively discourage. 🤝 The Power of Destination Ecosystems One of Moriya’s most compelling insights centers on viewing fellow hosts as ecosystem partners rather than competitors. This philosophy aligns with the community-driven approach that many successful operators have adopted. “Each one of us as hosts should represent a destination and should know the colleagues—you maybe refer to them as competitors, but you should start to look at yourself as a kind of an ecosystem working in the same destination.” Practical Applications: This ecosystem mindset becomes particularly powerful when combined with direct booking strategies, as it allows hosts to build comprehensive destination brands that serve diverse guest needs. 🎨 Authenticity as Your Competitive Advantage While much of the industry focuses on optimizing pricing tools and ranking algorithms, Moriya advocates for a more fundamental approach: bringing your authentic self to the hospitality experience. Ways to Inject Authenticity: This authentic approach becomes increasingly important as AI and automated systems reshape guest discovery. Properties with genuine, unique stories and experiences will have significant advantages in AI-powered recommendation systems. 🚀 Preparing for the AI-Driven Future Moriya’s perspective on the industry’s future is both pragmatic and urgent. She predicts that within five years, AI will fundamentally change how guests discover and book travel experiences, making many current channels obsolete. “Very soon, OTAs and channels will be facing simple AI. Everybody will tell their whole story, record it from their phone, and within seconds get a bundle of flights and where to go and which villa… People will not search anymore. That’s the main thing. Forget about searching.” Strategic Preparations: 📚 Moriya’s Rapid Fire Insights Book Recommendation Timbuktu by Paul Auster – A unique novel told from a dog’s perspective that offers valuable insights into seeing ourselves and our hospitality from our guests’ viewpoint. The book challenges readers to examine how they truly appear to others, making it particularly relevant for hosts focused on guest experience. Mindset Advice Smile Through Everything – Moriya’s philosophy centers on maintaining positivity through challenges, criticism, and success alike. As she puts it: “Smile when you have difficulties. Smile when you’re getting criticized… Smile when you’re not getting the best review and think, ‘I’m gonna get better’… I met a lot of great hosts that forget to go on vacation, that forget to smile and forget to enjoy what they’re doing.” Tactical Direct Booking Advice Bring Authentic Yourself – Rather than focusing solely on tools and technology, Moriya emphasizes the importance of personal authenticity: “Bring authenticity into your hospitality journey. Bring yourself. Try to make a difference just by your way of thinking, your way of designing your special touch, your way of connecting to your local community, your thinking outside of the box.” 🌍 Building Your Independent Hospitality Brand Moriya’s journey from early Airbnb host to platform founder

What does it take to truly own your guest journey — from the moment they see your property to the moment they return next year? For Joe Rohne, short-term rental operator, investor, and broker, the answer lies in control: control of your brand, your pricing, your data, and your guest relationships. In this episode of Booked Solid, Joe shares how he built a resilient direct booking strategy that leverages automation, email marketing, smart design, and a hyper-targeted ad funnel to grow his business in the Florida Panhandle. Summary and Highlights 👤 Meet the Guest: Joe Rohne Joe is a STR investor, co-host of 12 properties, and founder of the Savvy Emerald Coast real estate team. From owning a preschool to running a landscaping company, Joe’s path into short-term rentals came through relentless learning — including 50+ audiobooks every summer while mowing lawns. Today, he helps investors find and manage high-ROI rentals with a systems-first, guest-first approach. 🧭 What You’ll Learn 📌 Highlights 📚 Book Mentions 🧠 Mindset & Rapid Fire 🔗 Connect with Joe 🎧 Ready to stop chasing listings and start building a brand that lasts? Listen to the full episode and start owning your guest experience at CraftedStays.co. Transcription Joe: We have barcodes in our, in our properties going directly to our direct booking website. Our signs that have our property management company at the street, you know, ’cause we’re in a traditional vacation rental market, has a QR code, the direct booking website for that specific property, not for our management company. Joe: So when people are walking by, they can scan that QR code. And then I’d probably say the most important thing out of all of them is get, is getting repeat guests, getting the person that’s booked, getting their email, getting their phone number, and putting them into our email campaign to. Stay close to them. Joe: Before we bring on my guest, I wanted to talk just a little bit about something that I’ve been hearing a lot from Host. I keep on hearing the same thing. I know my website isn’t converting, but I can’t afford $8,000 on an agency to rebuild it. Here’s the thing, you’re letting all these marketing strategies, you’re driving traffic and you’re putting it. Joe: All to work, but if your site isn’t really built to convert, you’re basically lighting your energy and money on fire. And even if you could afford an agency build, every time you want to test something or make a change, you’re having to pay them again. You can’t iterate, you can’t test, and you really can improve on things. Joe: You don’t need a custom $10,000 website to get the conversion rates that really matter. You just need the right platform. That’s why I build craft Estates. It’s purpose built for short-term rentals and designed from the ground up to help you drive more direct bookings. You can finally turn that traffic into bookings and you can keep on testing and improving. Joe: As you learn, you can make changes all on the platform. You don’t need to learn something new. So if you need some help or you wanna get started, go ahead and go to craft stays.co and start your free trial. Now let’s bring on our guests and dive deep into hospitality and marketing. Gil: Hey folks. Welcome back to the book Solid Show, the podcast where we bring on top operators to discuss marketing, revenue management, and the guest experience to drive towards being booked solid. On today’s show, I have Joe Rohne. Joe is actually a real estate broker himself. He’s an investor. He’s gonna walk us through how he’s kind of grown his portfolio to what it is. Gil: Today he’s gonna talk about his marketing tactics. He has a lot of fundamentals that I encourage almost all of our listeners to put into practice today, which is really around targeting your past guest. And he also has some pretty advanced tactics like doing Facebook retargeting campaigns, look at likes and such. Gil: So I’m really thrilled to have him on the show to talk about. What he’s done, how he’s thinking about things. He’s also done things a bit differently than others as well too. So it’s a good perspective on just seeing how folks are doing email marketing, , and even deploying their own direct booking sites for themselves too. Gil: So without further ado, let’s bring him in. Gil: Hey, Joe, welcome to the show. Joe: Hey, how’s it going? Gil: It’s going very well. How have you been? Joe: Can’t complain. We’re getting ready. Uh, you know, for, we’re in peak, peak season and, business is good. I can’t complain. Gil: How’s peak for you? What does that look like for you as, as your management company? Joe: We are, you know, summer, traditional summer markets, you know, uh, so we, we started peak in March and. Uh, it gets a little bit slow in April, may, and then by mid-May, through mid-August, we are gangbusters busy. Gil: Yeah. How’s your team look like now to support you? Joe: Uh, so really it’s my wife and I, um, I have a virtual assistant, and of course I have some great boots on the ground. You know, uh, I, I have, you know, four different cleaning companies, three or four different handymen that I partner with, you know, all the other basics, the HVAC, all that, all that kind of stuff. Joe: Ready to call if I need ’em, but. Uh, definitely don’t have all my eggs in one basket with one cleaning team. Uh, I definitely like to have it go around to multiple. Gil: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like right now, like there’s like two parts of peak for, for us it’s like one is like peak peak in terms of revenue management. So the last. Few months, it’s really around like, okay, how do we fill our

“When guests walk in and discover a gourmet snack or high-end facial mask, it’s more than an amenity—it’s delight.” That’s the unforgettable touch Rachel Vigil brings to vacation rentals through UpClose Marketing—a platform connecting hosts with premium brands for product placements that wow guests and reinforce their brand identity. In this episode of the Booked Solid Show, Gil sits down with Rachel to unpack how these carefully curated in-property experiences—from zero-alcohol Heineken to luxury sleep gummies and open-box mattresses—do more than elevate the guest experience. They drive reviews, reinforce your property’s positioning, and—when paired with a solid direct booking strategy—help small hosts operate like full-fledged brands. Whether you manage two properties or twenty, this conversation is packed with insights on how to create that “I need to book this again” moment the minute guests walk through the door. Summary and Highlights Meet Rachel Vigil Rachel Vigil is the CEO of UpClose Marketing, a platform helping short-term and mid-term rental hosts upgrade their guest experience through strategic brand partnerships—without costing them a dime. If you manage over 10 properties, Rachel’s team will even onboard you personally. 👩‍💼 Rachel’s Expertise with Up Close Marketing: Transforming Guest Stays Through Strategic Product Placement Rachel Vigil, founder and CEO of Up Close Marketing, brings her own experience as a short-term rental host into an innovative model that connects vacation rental hosts with premium brands. Her key contributions: 💡 Rachel’s Direct Booking Journey: From Manual Hosting to Building a Professional Brand In the second half of the episode, Rachel flips the script. Curious about launching her own direct booking strategy, she asks Gil: Key Takeaways & Highlights 🔗 Connect with Rachel Vigil & Up Close Marketing Rachel Vigil is the CEO of Up Close Marketing, a platform helping short-term and mid-term rental hosts upgrade their guest experience through strategic brand partnerships, without costing them a dime. If you manage over 10 properties, Rachel’s team will even onboard you personally. 📧 Email: rachel@upclosemktg.com📞 Phone: 858-220-6275🌐 Sign up: upclosemktg.com/signup📱 Instagram: @upclosemarketing📘 Facebook: @upclosemarketing💼 LinkedIn: @upclosemarketing She also shares upcoming campaigns and referral perks in her Wednesday newsletter—and is open to collaborations with coaching programs, Facebook groups, and host communities. 😊 Final Thoughts & Next Steps Rachel’s journey is one of empowerment—using guest-first details to enhance stays and now preparing to launch a branded, scalable direct booking strategy. ✅ Listen to the full episode to hear both sides of the guest-host partnership and learn how direct bookings can start with as little as two properties.👉 Visit craftedstays.co and start your free trial today! Transcription Rachel: So we partner with brands who want to have a unique experience with their consumer, and guests are consumers. Vacation rentals are an amazing place to place a product. So I think just like in the movies, there’s product getting placed. Well, this time we’re moving it into the vacation space, and it’s a fun experience for a guest to walk in and be surprised and delighted by some amenity they would never expect. Rachel: It could be some cleaning supplies or a very high-end shampoo, face mask, cosmetics, snack products, all the way to mattresses. We’ve done massage guns, we’ve done workout equipment. So there’s a whole variety of different brands that just wanna have that experience and trial with potential consumers. So the product is free to the host and to the guest because it’s a marketing play. Rachel: The brands honestly are. They’re paying for their marketing budget up close for the access to our network and to oversee the whole process. Gil: Before we bring on our guests, I want to talk just a little bit about something that I’ve been hearing a lot from Host. I keep on hearing the same thing. I know my website isn’t converting, but I can’t afford $8,000 on an agency to rebuild it. Here’s the thing, you’re letting all these marketing strategies, you’re driving traffic and you’re putting it. Gil: All to work, but if your site isn’t really built to convert, you’re basically lighting your energy and money on fire. And even if you could afford an agency build, every time you want to test something or make a change, you’re having to pay them again. You can’t iterate, you can’t test, and you really can’t improve on things. Gil: You don’t need a custom $10,000 website to get the conversion rates that really matter. You just need the right platform. That’s why I build craft Estates. It’s purpose built for short-term rentals and designed from the ground up to help you drive more direct bookings. You can finally turn that traffic into bookings and you can keep on testing and improving. Gil: As you learn, you can make changes all on the platform. You don’t need to learn something new. So if you need some help or you wanna get started, go ahead and go to craft stays.co and start your free trial. Now let’s bring on our guests and dive deep into hospitality and marketing. Gil: Hey folks. Welcome back to the Books Solid Show, the podcast we bring on top operators to discuss marketing, revenue management, and guest experience to drive towards being books solid. On today’s show, I have Rachel Vigil. She is the founder and CEO of up close marketing. They do something quite unique that I haven’t found in this space. Gil: I measure at Level Up your listing. But what they do is they allow hosts to be able to. Explore new brands and have those brands give them free products that they can put into their properties for their guest experience. When I met Rachel at Level Up and she told me about the idea, it was something quite unique. Gil: And what I really love about it is really around the guest experience that you’re able to provide. that’s pretty unique. the second half of the show is actually pretty interesting where she had a bunch of questions. She’s trying to get into direct bookings herself, so actually turning the script

“If you rely only on OTAs, you’ve lost control—direct bookings give you the freedom and stability to weather anything.” — Federico Zimerman From a spare bedroom in Buenos Aires to managing 75+ properties and opening a boutique inn in the Catskills, Federico Zimerman’s journey is anything but ordinary. On this episode of Booked Solid, Gil welcomes Federico to unpack how an airline trainer turned STR operator is now helping hosts future-proof their businesses through intentional branding, operational systems, and direct booking strategy. Summary and Highlights 🧰 About Federico Zimerman Federico, also known as @strguide on Instagram, brings a global lens to the short-term rental industry. After 10 years traveling as a corporate trainer for a major U.S. airline, he transitioned into STR property management—first remotely from Argentina, and later building a multi-state management firm after moving to the U.S. He now manages properties across 16 states, holds equity in a boutique hotel, and is opening a bar in New York. His mission? Empower owners to run resilient, guest-first businesses. 🔍 What You’ll Learn in This Episode 📚 Federico’s Book Recommendations 🪡 Mindset Takeaway “Be persistent and patient. You won’t see results on Day 1, but if you trust the process and keep showing up, the seeds will grow.” 💬 Connect with Federico Transcription Federico: Even though I relied on this OTAs to grow my business and they were amazing and they were simple to use, I understand that to have a healthy long-term business sustainable all time, I had to have control of my bookings on my traffic and my properties. And if something happens, because we had a property being the listed and fairly, in my opinion, I was able to get it back up after like three months of challenging the LTA. Federico: In the meantime, we got a few direct bookings on other platforms I hadn’t used before, like booking.com. And that was good because you know, you get the list of the, one of the big platforms, it’s like is a death sentence for a lot of people. It’s like you lost your investment. Yeah. Like everything’s gone. Federico: And by building this, we were able to, oh look, we’re getting Google vacation rental bookings. Again, direct bookings. Gil: Before we bring on my guest, I wanted to talk just a little bit about something that I’ve been hearing a lot from Host. I keep on hearing the same thing. I know my website isn’t converting, but I can’t afford $8,000 on an agency to rebuild it. Here’s the thing, you’re letting all these marketing strategies, you’re driving traffic and you’re putting it all to work. Gil: But if your site isn’t really built to convert. You’re basically lighting your energy and money on fire, and even if you could afford an agency build, every time you want to test something or make a change, you’re having to pay them again. You can’t iterate, you can’t test, and you really can improve on things. Gil: You don’t need a custom $10,000 website to get the conversion rates that really matter. You just need the right platform. That’s why I build Craft Estates is purpose built for short-term rentals and designed from the ground up to help you drive more direct bookings. You can finally turn that traffic into bookings. Gil: And you can keep on testing and improving. As you learn, you can make changes all on the platform. You don’t need to learn something new. So if you need some help or you wanna get started, go ahead and go to craft stays.co and start your free trial. Now let’s bring on our guests and dive deep into hospitality and marketing. Gil: Federico, welcome to the show. Federico: Thanks, man. I’m excited to be here. I know we’ve been trying to schedule this for a while and finally we made it happen. Gil: Yeah. Yes. It’s been, it’s been a long while, I think on both parts.  Federico: Oh yeah. Mostly of mine. So Gil: for what it’s worth, the last one was My fault. Um, so we do, I think both of us, actually, a lot of folks in the industry actually live pretty busy lives, so I’m not surprised, uh, that some of these times we, we get things, uh, rescheduled. Federico: things get crazy, uh, in this industry Federico: du moment.  Gil: Yeah. Never tell him for sure, for sure. Um, we met at Level Up, I think you were probably the tallest guy I saw at Level  Gil: for that specifically that conference, um, being a male there and being the tallest male there, you definitely stuck out like a, like a nail there. Federico: I know, I know, but I’m used to this being Federico: all my life like that. But I know it’s weird and it’s pretty funny as well. I know people look at me like this, Federico: uh, like I’m not used to looking at people in the eyes when I’m standing up or less like looking up. So it’s, it’s pretty funny when I see someone’s my height or taller. Federico: I’m six six. I think. Uh, Federico: listen, I’m from ARG today. I use mirrors. I’m still like, I’m trying to remember fits and inches and all that, but I think I’m six six. Gil: yeah. Uh, that’s still pretty tall. Um, I was, uh, I saw Justin last, last week and I just realized that you actually had a picture with Justin. You  Federico: Oh, yeah. Yeah.  Gil: next, like you’re basically the same height and I feel so small next to Justin. Every time I’m next to him. Federico: Yeah. Where, where do you see him? Gil: was he at VR Nation? Gil: Yes, he was at VR Nation and he was also at the STR Hospitality Summit as well too. Federico: nice. Yeah. Justin, I did a certification with, uh, we, we got along pretty well because I did the, the,