How a boutique hotel got 65% direct bookings in a year by leveraging influencers with DJ Fornelli

Summary and Highlights

In our latest podcast episode, we had the pleasure of speaking with DJ Fornelli, a trailblazer who made a remarkable transition from archaeology to real estate investing and hospitality. DJ’s story is a testament to how passion and perseverance can lead to extraordinary career shifts and successes. Here’s a deep dive into our conversation and the valuable insights DJ shared about his journey.

From Archaeology to Real Estate: A Career Pivot

DJ Fornelli’s career began in archaeology, a field where he unearthed the past. However, after some reflection, DJ realized that his financial potential could be significantly higher in real estate. This epiphany led him to dive into the world of property investment and hospitality, where he quickly discovered the lucrative opportunities that flipping houses presented.

DJ and his partners took a strategic approach to their new venture by investing in a real estate education program. This investment in knowledge equipped them with the skills needed to navigate the complex world of property investment. They started by flipping houses in Joshua Tree, California, a location that allowed them to capitalize on both the real estate market and the burgeoning short-term rental trend.

From Flipping Houses to Boutique Hotels

DJ’s real estate journey didn’t stop at flipping houses. His team’s success with short-term rentals led them to a new venture: a 10-key boutique hotel named Yara Palm Springs. This move marked a significant milestone in their hospitality endeavors.

The hotel’s success is largely attributed to their focus on building a strong brand and creating a cohesive aesthetic across all platforms. Remarkably, about 65% of Yara Palm Springs’ bookings come through direct channels like their website. This achievement underscores the importance of a well-executed branding strategy and a user-friendly booking experience.

The Power of Influencer Marketing

DJ shared that working with influencers has been a game-changer for marketing the hotel. Influencers have helped amplify their brand’s reach and credibility, contributing to a substantial increase in direct bookings. However, this approach hasn’t been as effective for their individual short-term rentals, highlighting the need for tailored marketing strategies for different types of properties.

Key Mindset Insights

Throughout our conversation, DJ emphasized the importance of mindset in achieving success:

• Embrace the Journey: Understand that the path to success is often long and challenging. Enjoying the process and staying resilient through the ups and downs is crucial.
• Prepare for the Mundane: Building systems and standard operating procedures (SOPs) can be tedious but are essential for long-term success. Don’t be discouraged by the seemingly boring aspects of business management.
• Persevere Through Challenges: When things get tough, persistence is key. DJ’s story is a prime example of how tenacity can lead to remarkable outcomes.

The Value of a Strong Team

One of DJ’s biggest takeaways from his journey is the significance of having a strong, well-rounded team. He highlighted how having team members with complementary strengths and clearly defined roles and responsibilities has been pivotal in their success. A cohesive team not only enhances operational efficiency but also drives innovation and growth.

Balancing Work and Family

DJ’s transition to real estate and hospitality has also provided him with the flexibility to spend quality time with his young daughter. He expressed deep gratitude for the balance he’s been able to achieve between his professional pursuits and family life.

Final Thoughts

DJ Fornelli’s journey from archaeology to real estate and hospitality is a powerful reminder that career transitions, while challenging, can lead to fulfilling and profitable ventures. His insights into mindset, team-building, and branding offer valuable lessons for anyone looking to embark on a similar path.

Tune in to the full podcast episode for more detailed insights and inspiration from DJ’s incredible journey. Whether you’re considering a career shift or looking to enhance your current business strategies, DJ’s experiences and advice are sure to provide valuable guidance.

Follow DJ Fornelli on Instagram @davidjfornelli & @yarapalmsprings

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Transcription

Gil: Hey folks, welcome back to Direct Booking Simplified, where we break down the strategies and tactics to win in direct bookings. On today’s show, I have DJ Fornelli. DJ Fornelli. DJ, welcome to the show. 

DJ: Oh, thanks so much for having me, Gil. It’s awesome to be here, bro.

Gil: Yeah, it was great meeting you at Nation. What it last week? It felt like much longer than that. 

DJ: Yeah, yeah, it was awesome. We got to have lunch, uh, about two days in a row. We got to chat, learn more about each other, each other’s businesses. We talked about kids, man. So it was great meeting you. 

Gil: Yeah.

Gil: I really liked the more intimate, uh, conferences. I was at Wellcon earlier this year and it was just really, really big. And you, you feel like you’re speed dating with pretty much. All the attendees, whereas this one, we did get a chance to sit down and have lunch together multiple times and like have a real conversation and get to know each other and like, get to talk about our kids.

Gil: Like you really don’t have that experience at a much bigger conference. Yeah. 

DJ: Yeah. I agree, bro. I agree. And I feel like at the bigger ones, people are kind of sizing each other up. Right. Like everyone’s looking at each other, like, Oh, what does this guy have? What’s his portfolio? And then you kind of like judge someone, like, if you’re like, Oh, this guy’s a medium operator onto the next one.

DJ: Um, whereas the smaller ones, a lot more intimate, like you said, we can get to know each other, everyone’s guards down just a little bit more. So thank you, Patrick and Stephanie for, for putting on a great event and allowing me to meet awesome people like Gil. 

Gil: Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully they, uh, they pull back on their words and they bring it back for it in the year.

DJ: Yeah, let’s convince him, dude. I’m gonna text Patrick after this and be like, dude, you have to do it again. You have to. 

Gil: I, I honestly think he does want to. Um, him and Seven. Maybe Patrick a little bit more, but I feel like they, like deep down, they are not ready to let this go and they will try to find some way to let it survive, even if it’s like handing it off to someone else to, you know, To lead the next one.

DJ: Yeah, yeah, it’s their baby, dude. And they’re, but you know, they’re both so freaking busy. They both do amazing things. They have their hand in a lot of different cups. So I understand why they’re kind of like, Oh, maybe not another one. Cause I can’t even imagine the amount of work that goes into putting on a conference like that.

Gil: Yeah. I wouldn’t be surprised if they meet a partner. And a little bit and they take on the whole kind of like the branding and the community building of it where they’re still like authority leaders within the group. But they, they’ve all like, they kind of pass that on to like more, more board members than they are operators at that point.

DJ: I like that. Are you volunteering yourself Gil to take it on? 

Gil: I also don’t have the time and capacity. I would actually love to like help out in the community. Um, because I got a lot of value out of it. Um, we’ll see, hopefully someone does step up though, honestly. Yeah. 

DJ: I agree. Hopefully someone steps up, man.

Gil: Yeah. Yeah. Well, before we get too deep into it, uh, do you mind kind of introducing yourself to, to our listeners today? 

DJ: Definitely. Don’t mind at all. My name is David Franelli, but I go by DJ because I’m sure we all know a ton of David’s out there. I’ve been investing in real estate over the last five years.

DJ: We’ve transacted a little bit. Over 20 million in real estate. And as a result, we have a 7 million portfolio across 15 units. 14 out of those 15 units are in the hospitality field. So a 10 key boutique hotel, and then four short term rentals in the Joshua tree area. I haven’t always been in real estate Gil prior to real estate.

DJ: I was actually a California desert archeologist. So I have my master’s degree in anthropology with an emphasis in archeology. I spent a lot of time shovel bumming as we like to call it. I went on some pretty incredible and life changing excavations in Peru, Spain, and all over the California desert. And it was a fantastic career, but it’s one of those careers that you do because you love it, not because you get paid well within our first house flip.

DJ: It took us three months to flip our first house. I had made two and a half times my yearly salary as an archeologist. So once I saw the potential to be able to make that kind of money and establish our own business, for me, it was a no brainer. I’ve jumped into real estate and hospitality ever since and haven’t looked back.

Gil: Yeah, dude, that’s a that’s an amazing story going from archeology all the way to investing into two boutique hotels. That’s that’s quite a that’s quite a journey there. 

DJ: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, you know, it used to be my job to find ancient sites. Now it’s my job to find cash flowing properties, as I like to say.

DJ: So there are some parallels for sure. Um, a lot of people get into the woo woo stuff and they’re like, Oh dude, but you understand spaces really well. And you understand people really well, which is true. There are some parallels that carry over. Anthropology is the study of people. And I think real estate ultimately is a people business, um, more so than, you know, paper properties and hospitality is the exact same way.

DJ: Um, Still dealing with people rather than dealing with ancient people. I’m dealing with modern people and we’re providing them with some pretty outstanding experiences. 

Gil: Yeah. How did you get into your first, you mentioned like you, you did your first flip and you made 2. 5 X what you were making annually.

Gil: Yeah. How did you do that first one? How did you fall into that? 

DJ: Yeah, bro. Long story short, we joined the real estate education program. It was the very end of 2019. My wife had been laid off from her job as a solar developer, and we always wanted to start a business. My wife and my wife’s brother, we always knew We were going to be business owners at the time.

DJ: We actually had a small ATM portfolio and my wife came across an Instagram ad for the fortune builders, which is a very large real estate education company. They kind of died down. Now, uh, we joined the fortune builders, which came with two years of coaching mentorship. It came with all the documents we needed.

DJ: Uh, The systems, the tools, the softwares. And that was our introduction to real estate. So prior to November, 2020, I knew pretty much absolutely nothing about real estate. Um, and thanks to that coaching program and leveraging our mentors and those folks, we were able to build a pretty substantial portfolio and hit the ground running after that.

DJ: Um, we originally started flipping houses Gil in Joshua tree, California. We wanted to flip in our backyard in Los Angeles, but this was the beginning of COVID. It was extremely competitive and it was very difficult for us to get our first deal. Like a lot of us, you know, may find it’s really hard. There’s a lot of inertia we have to overcome in the very beginning.

DJ: Uh, my wife had sent out an email to her network saying, Hey, is anyone have a house that we can flip? And her old coworker, which is now an amazingly good friend of ours had a house in Joshua tree, California. So life kind of rewards us in funny ways because that happened to be two and a half hours away from our home.

DJ: So we thought, Hey, you know what? That’s not too bad. I mean, just down the 10 freeway. Let’s try it out. We started flipping houses in Joshua tree. It’s a big short term rental investing area, a short term rental investor bought our first house flip, and that was really our entrance into flipping houses, but also hospitality in the world of Airbnbs and short term rentals.

Gil: Got it. Got it. So let me, let me kind of read it right back. So you were. You were, you bought a program, you, you joined a program there, and then you ended up trying to find your first flipping deal, and it was your partner’s friend that actually had the property that you were, that was your first flip.

Gil: Correct. And that’s how you, that’s how you came across the Joshua Tree market. Is that right? 

DJ: Yeah, for investing, I had been going to Joshua tree to camp and, you know, see the stars and all that stuff for years, right? So I was familiar with the area, but I wasn’t familiar with investing out there. The great thing about that Gil was, excuse me at the time, uh, average purchase price for a home in LA was For fixers, right.

DJ: It was probably 700, 000, somewhere in that range and Joshua tree, it was 200, 000. So even though it was far away, it was a much lower barrier to entry, which in my opinion is a lot safer to do. And so even people like myself who live in Los Angeles, when I talked to new investors and they’re like, Oh my God, how do I get started?

DJ: LA is so expensive. I’m like, well, look on the peripheries, look outside of LA, which I think can be true for a lot of major cities. And that’s really what turned us on to Joshua tree. 

Gil: Wow. Wow. That’s, that’s amazing. And so how did you get into going from the flipping all the way to, to investing? Do you were like, I can, I’m flipping these houses for investors.

Gil: I should keep them for myself. 

DJ: Yeah, bro. Exactly. We knew that flipping is great. Active income, but it doesn’t build wealth. Right. And that was something that thankfully our mentors kind of taught us. And just, we learned once we started investing in real estate, I fully immersed myself and started reading books and listening to more podcasts.

DJ: In addition to talking with our coaches and mentors, but we always knew that the true way to build wealth is to hold onto properties. We wanted passive income. We knew, Hey, let’s work for active income, but eventually we want. To use real estate as the vehicle, not necessarily the ultimate destination. And we hit a couple of really, really good grand slam home runs in terms of profit out there on our house flips.

DJ: And so that’s how we started keeping these properties. We utilize the burr method a lot because we were able to buy these highly distressed assets for well under market value. Force the appreciation refinance out of that loan into some long term debt, and then operate these as short term rentals. So we like to call it the burster method.

DJ: Um, we flipped, I believe, 10 or 11 houses out in Joshua tree, and then ended up keeping four into our own portfolio, which we still own. And I operate those today. 

Gil: Got it. Did you know that you’re going to keep these four when you first purchased them? Where you’re like, okay, we’re going to flip this one, but this is going to be a bursar.

Gil: We’re keeping it to ourselves. 

DJ: Yeah, we did it. The first one we did it, we fell in love with the home man, because we knew that it would make an outstanding short term rental. And so as we were flipping it, we started running our numbers to see if it could work as a burr, which at this time we didn’t even know.

DJ: That we were doing the burst strategy, right? Like, cause we weren’t that, uh, educated on investing. We just knew like, Hey, we’re flipping the house. Hey, this is great. We’re going to force the appreciation. So with the first two, I would say we did not know we were going to do the burster method with the last two.

DJ: We did know that that was the goal ultimately was to flip them into short term rentals. 

Gil: Yeah. Are you still doing these today? Are you still doing brochures, bursters? 

DJ: Uh, no, not in Joshua tree. We’re looking to do them out of state now, because again, the barrier to entry in terms of price point is much lower out of state.

DJ: So we’re looking at markets like South Bend, Indiana, and then, um, I also looked at a couple of markets in Ohio as well as Iowa. So we’re looking to do the burr method in those smaller out of state markets. We’re still flipping houses in the Los Angeles market. So we have one property. We just sold a property, I believe two months ago, a month ago, we have one that’s listed right now, and then we’re finishing up two more and getting ready to list those soon in Los Angeles.

DJ: And those are, You know, 1. 3, 1. 4 million properties and above. Wow. 

Gil: Yeah. 

DJ: It’s scary, bro. Buying a million dollar fixer. Like it’s, it’s scary to us. It’s so normal now, but sometimes I tend to forget how risky, right. And how really out of the ordinary it is to buy a property for a million dollars, that’s a fixer and then put, you know, 300, 000 into it and then sell it for, let’s say 2 million.

DJ: Um, but it’s a fantastic business model when we execute on our margins. 

Gil: Yeah, I mean, you kind of step into it like most folks will gradually kind of graduate in, in their experience and into larger deals and where right now it probably doesn’t feel risky to you because you’ve now done it four times over.

Gil: Um, and you’ve, you kind of know, like what the numbers looks like, what the variable, what’s the sensitivity analysis of like, okay, if this goes wrong, this can go from positive to negative this much amount. So, you know, like. Actually how much risk there is where you possibly could be taking actually a lot less risk now.

Gil: Then you did on your first deal. 

DJ: Yeah. Yeah. That’s a, that’s a great way to put it, man. My, one of my mentors, Sean McNicholas likes to talk to us about the inverse relationship between risk and control. So the less control we have, the ultimate, ultimately the more risky something is and vice versa. Right?

DJ: The less risky something is, the more control we have. And so now we know how to mitigate risk for house flips for these million plus dollar properties in LA. The first one being buying it correctly. We all know in real estate and hospitality, you make your money on the purchase. You don’t necessarily make it on the sales.

DJ: So as long as we buy correctly, that’s one good way to mitigate one good way to mitigate risk. Another thing that we like to look. For Gil and if there’s any house flippers listening to this is the list to sales price ratio. So that in our opinion determines what can be a hot market, meaning houses are selling for greater than what they’re listed for.

DJ: And even in this environment of high interest rates or higher interest rates, looking at something like the list of sales price ratio can allow us to know that we’re working in an area that’s still pretty hot and that the likelihood of the house. Going over asking is quite high if the list of sales price ratio is greater than 100%.

DJ: So those are just a couple of ways that we like to mitigate risk, but you’re absolutely correct. Now we have the tools to be able to mitigate risk. Whereas before we didn’t have the experience or the tools to be able to do that. 

Gil: Yeah. Yeah. And I’m, I’m, I’m sure like you’re much better at estimating what the, the, the actual rehab cost is going to be now than you would ever before.

DJ: Yeah. And the tricky thing about that though, is recently labor costs have increased, material costs have increased and they’ve come down a little bit since COVID, but that is a little bit tricky. And that’s the tricky thing that we’re finding in entering an out of state market is we understand the labor costs, material costs for LA.

DJ: Now we understand. And then for Joshua Tree, because we worked out there for so long, we don’t necessarily understand them when we enter a new market. So for that, I like to just go off national averages until I have a better idea of the local market and what the labor and material costs cost in the local market.

Gil: Yeah. You mentioned something very interesting earlier that you almost switch used to end up switching careers and you end up finding this It’s the program that helped you learn all of this. How did you have the faith or the trust to bank so much into a program because like there’s lots of programs out there.

Gil: Some of them are really good and some of them are a little bit more fluff, but how did you know like this is actually, this is something we have to do? 

DJ: Oh my gosh. That’s a great question, dude. When we signed up for this fortune builders program, I had consulted briefly with my aunt who had been in real estate back in the day.

DJ: And she was like, run, it’s a scam. It’s a scam. Don’t buy into it. And we’re like, wait, what, how can this be a scam? You know, ultimately we did our research. We looked at how long this program has been around. We looked at the reviews for this program on the better business bureau. We looked at what we could find on Facebook.

DJ: We did internet searches and this program wasn’t cheap, Gil. It was 50, 000. It was like 49, nine, nine, seven. Wow. It was not cheap at all. And so I don’t encourage people to jump into a 50, 000 program right away, because it’s very risky. And unfortunately, now that I’ve been in real estate for five years, I hear stories from people who have invested in programs and they’ve been complete scams, or they haven’t gotten their money worth.

DJ: So to answer your question, we did our homework and we saw that, Hey, there are people that have been very successful in this program. And as long as we can work the program, then we should be successful too. Right. We didn’t go in the program expecting that, Hey, we just have to sign up for this and everything will be done for us.

DJ: We knew that there was going to be a level of work and a level of inertia that we’ll have to work. While we’re leveraging all the people systems and tools that this program has to offer. We purchased, we didn’t have 50, 000 at the time to buy into this program. So we purchased this program using credit cards.

DJ: So myself, my wife and my wife’s brother, we all applied for the exact same credit card. I got approved for 20, 000 on the spot. My brother in law 20, 000 on the spot. And my wife, despite having the best credit got approved for 50. Or 10, 000, but we had essentially raised 50, 000 at 0 percent interest for 15 months, and that’s what we use to buy into the program.

DJ: So we knew we had a 15 month window to make something out of it and pay off the credit cards and ultimately be profitable. So for us. We didn’t go into this program with doubt and, you know, we chatted a little bit about mindset. And I think once we introduce doubt into our mind, then that is going to build and compound with fear.

DJ: And then we’re just going to reach analysis paralysis, and we’re going to think it’s the end of the world. We did not have any doubt. We knew that by swiping our credit cards and buying into this program, we were going to make it work. And we didn’t give ourselves another option to not make it work. And.

DJ: Dude. So we ended up selling that flip on month 14 of that no interest period. And so we were able to pay off, um, the credit cards that we used to buy into the program, um, and then put some money in our pocket, but essentially from the very beginning, That taught us to leverage other people’s money in order to continue to build our business.

DJ: And I think that’s really important for people to understand is they look at us and they see, Oh my gosh, these guys have, you know, a million plus dollar portfolio now, right? They must have a lot of money. You must be a trust fund kid. You might blah, blah, blah. Right. When that can be further from the truth.

DJ: Like we were literally in debt before we started this program because we had student loans and car notes to pay and things like that. And. By leveraging this program that was able to get us out of debt, but other other people’s money, OPM, whether that’s the form of credit card, private money lenders, or any other sort of institutional lending for us has been instrumental because we didn’t have our own capital to be able to invest in our projects.

Gil: That’s, that’s an amazing story. I. I’ve never seen someone take that much out in credit cards to float this. So kudos to you to have the courage to do it and really the execution to actually pull it through and make it on the other end. Sounds like on a much better side too. 

DJ: Yeah. Yeah. And you know what?

DJ: It’s also the faith and trust that I have in my wife as a partner and my wife’s brother, because we’re all, and I throw myself in here, like I’m probably the dumbest one out of them too, but they’re brilliant people. And so it wasn’t just me. I’m not just a singular guy who was able to build this portfolio.

DJ: I’ve been a part of teams and even with the hotel, I’m a part of a small team on the hotel. And so knowing and having that relationship, first of all, and then faith and trust. And the people that I’m working with has been huge because had it been up to me, yes, I would have reached some level of success, but I wouldn’t have been able to compound or amplify the success if I did not have an amazing team with my wife and brother in law and now our business partners.

Gil: Yeah. I I’ve, I’ve known a lot of folks that had built their portfolio using partners and that’s how they got into it. And I think that I always. I always see as like one of the biggest benefits of doing the partnerships is actually you’re spreading your load and you’re able to learn much faster and much broader by teaming up.

Gil: Because say, for instance, you were able to buy one property yourself and you were to buy this yourself. It’s going to be a while until you buy the next one. Whereas if you were to team up, then I know someone that has teamed up over and over again, where They were able to buy that one property in, in three months.

Gil: They’re able to take those learnings and apply it to the next property. And then again, the next property, and because they’re able to partner up, they’re able to learn much faster. So you have. 3x the learning in that small little partnership that would take years for you to compound. So your, your learning actually amplifies on top of just like leveraging other people’s money to actually build a bigger portfolio.

DJ: Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I agree. I agree. And I would even say, Like in your example of three partners, being able to three X, what you’re able to do, I would even take that a step further and say, if you have the right partner, you’re not able to just, you know, two X or one X you’re able to do much more than that.

DJ: Right? So if I have someone broke it down to me like this, they say, okay, if I have a million dollar business on my own, and then I partner up with somebody and now we have a 2 million business. I’m still in the same position as I was before, assuming that we’re 50 50 partners, but the goal would be to partner up with someone and take my million dollar business to, let’s say a 5 million business, because now I have two and a half X my current business at the time.

DJ: Right. And so that’s the value of having the right partners. I like to keep it real bro. And. On the flip side of that, the wrong partner can put you in a pretty bad hole and let partnering up with the wrong people, the wrong contractors, having the wrong systems and tools can work against you just as much as the right partner can be advantageous for you.

DJ: So for people that are going to partner, I would really encourage you guys to partner with people who have complementary strengths and really dividing the roles and responsibilities so that that plays on everybody’s strengths. Equally, now I know what I’m good at, and now I know what I’m not good at.

DJ: And, you know, we’ve done assessment tests and things like that to see if my visionary integrator and things like that, but that’s because I have the experience now, partnerships are amazing. Sometimes managing those people can be. Extremely difficult. And it might not be as fun. And I think, uh, Rafa Loza said this on stage at STR nation.

DJ: Cause we were chatting about STR nation earlier. He’s like, dude, I have to be able to have a beer or have lunch with someone if I’m going to go into business with them. And if I can’t do that, then maybe we shouldn’t be doing business together. 

Gil: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Let’s, let’s switch gears just a little bit and talk about kind of like your more recent, um, kind of portfolio growth is really around boutique hotels.

Gil: How did you get into, how did you get into being an SDR operator and then jumping into a 10 key boutique hotel? 

DJ: Yeah, so. Prior to property managing our own portfolio, we used to leverage property management because I didn’t have experience in that field. So I wanted to leverage property managers to see how the professionals do it.

DJ: And that way I can then take over. Once I have a little bit of experience, our pro we were doing a walkthrough of one of our short term rentals, our very first. short term rental that happens to be an international award winning short term rental based on its design. Our designer submitted this place for an award and it won.

DJ: So pretty cool. So we were doing a walkthrough the house is called Finca Nopali in Joshua Tree and we were doing a walkthrough with our property manager Moody and Katie at the time and Moody was complimenting The overall design of the home had a Spanish style architecture with kind of rounded edges.

DJ: It was very neutral and white and organic, and there was a lot of textures. And he was very impressed with our design and execution on that place. And he said, Hey, would you guys be interested in partnering in a boutique hotel? And instantly I just knew it was the right thing to do. And I said, yes, I’m one of three, so I’ll have to chat with my partners, but I’m pretty sure they’re going to say yes.

DJ: And the reason why he had us in mind was again, because the design and execution on our short term rental, and he had a pocket listing for a boutique hotel that had a very similar style architecture. And so he wanted to sort of replicate what we did there at Fink But throw a little spin and a twist on it.

DJ: So the whole 10 key boutique hotel, it’s called the Yara Palm Springs. We like to call it a boutique oasis in the heart of the desert is in Palm Springs, California, and Palm Springs is a legacy vacation market. It’s known for having this. Very kind of bright, colorful zebra and pink flamingos and palm trees, which is amazing.

DJ: There are so many cool places out there that are stunning. We wanted to flip that on its head. And Moody was like, Hey, I’m loving these hotels that we see in the Mediterranean and Bali and Greece. And it would be cool to bring something like that to Palm Springs. And that’s exactly what we did with Yara Hotel.

DJ: So we had a couple of conversations. We realized what everybody’s roles and responsibilities would be. We played on our strengths and our weaknesses. So it was our team’s job to property Matt, or I’m sorry, to project manage, to get the designing all squared away, to actually execute on the whole front end.

DJ: And then once the hotel was ready to go, then our partners, Moody and Katie would take over the property management, but. Because at the time they owned a management company of 26 units. So they’re very familiar with the operations of operating hospitality at scale. And that was the, really the birth of Yar Hotel.

DJ: And we’ve operated it. We officially launched in May of 2023. So it’s, we’ve been in about 14 months of operations. Um, and it’s been fantastic so far. 

Gil: What’s one of your biggest learnings going into that now? 

DJ: Biggest learnings. My biggest learning is realizing that boutique hotels are a separate business model than short term rentals.

DJ: Yes, you’re in the world of hospitality and those, the world of hospitality does have some synergies and some overlaps, but operating a hotel is its own business on its own. And it’s a different business because now you’re entering into commercial real estate. Residential real estate is fantastic. The valuation of homes are based on the comps or comparable homes in the area.

DJ: Whereas with commercial real estate, the valuation for the hotel is based on your net operating income and cap rates. So the ability to build wealth on the commercial side is far greater. Now that doesn’t come. With its pros and cons. Not everything is all good. Yes, we don’t have to fall under short term rental regulations because we’re a commercial building.

DJ: But now we have a whole other list of regulations that we have to follow like ADA requirements or fire or environmental health and safety or the alcohol board because we have a liquor license and we’re able to sell alcohol. So my biggest learning lesson with boutique hotels and I always tell people this is it’s a different business model.

DJ: Then short term rentals and you have to make sure that you have strong operators in place to be able to have a successful hotel. I know plenty of, you know, husband and wife couples kind of mom and pop style that do very well in the short term rental industry that may not do so well in the boutique hotel space just because of how demanding and the level of Operations that you have to be able to achieve.

DJ: It’s a lot more. So I just encourage people if they’re going to get into boutique hotels, make sure that they’re working with strong operators because it’s a heavy lift, man. 

Gil: Yeah. Did you have any partners in, in the group that had already managed a boutique hotel or more so the commercial side of things where you mentioned ADA compliant, fire and safety, these are things that you have to learn along the way, how did you kind of muster the education and the knowledge to get through all of that?

DJ: So that’s a great point. You bring up Gil, um, my brother in law, Oscar, Amanda’s brother, he comes from the commercial construction world. So he had worked on plenty of big commercial construction projects. So not only was that beneficial for us at the hotel level, but that was also beneficial to us for our lenders.

DJ: Because in order for you to get financing on a big commercial deal, like this, the lender is going to want to make sure that you have a strong team in place who has done something like this before. So we were really able to leverage my brother in law’s experience within commercial construction. Um, but as far as having partners that.

DJ: Understood the ins and outs of a boutique hotel. No, we all kind of figured it out as we go. We jumped out of the airplane and we built a parachute on the way down as Brandon Turner likes to say. And, um, I think that’s true for a lot of entrepreneurs is we don’t, we don’t know everything, right? And so sometimes we got to take advantage of a good opportunity and figure it out as we go.

DJ: And thankfully it’s, it’s worked out very well for us and it’s, we’ve been quite successful, Yara. 

Gil: Oh, congrats, dude. Congrats. Thank you. Thank you. 

DJ: But it’s not without my team, man. Like I said, I’m just one. I’m just a small piece in this puzzle, bro. 

Gil: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Um, transitioning a little bit. Um, I want to talk to you a little bit about kind of direct bookings and specifically around direct bookings for your hotel business, uh, which had a little bit before, before this, you actually have a pretty impressive direct bookings rates.

Gil: And I hear actually. Uh, boutique hotels or hotels in general is usually have much higher rates. Can you give our listeners a sense of kind of like how much you, how much do you bring in via direct versus OTAs? 

DJ: Yeah. Yara has been fantastic. And again, that’s thanks to Moody and Katie, our partners on this, who are extremely strong operators about 65%.

DJ: of our bookings for your hotel come through direct booking, and that comes through our website. So we hired an incredible brander to to build out a brand package that carries through from the website and mimics what’s at the hotel. So it’s a very cohesive experience from the point someone instagram. To when they go to our website to book direct to when they show up on the hotel, on the actual grounds, everything is very cohesive and it’s very consistent with marketing and branding.

DJ: I speak a lot about our team, right? It’s a common theme that I mentioned over and over moody. Our partner has a very strong background in digital marketing, so he understands how to market these properties on the web and make something just look Absolutely fantastic. And so he was really the visionary and took a lot of lead on that cohesive experience throughout.

DJ: And so again, thankfully we worked with somebody who was able to build a very beautiful website that again was cohesive with the design of the property. And so really from the moment you book your online until you leave the door, it’s a total experience. 

Gil: Oh, that’s amazing. Um, what’s, what’s some of those things that you do to help bring traffic to your website or even maybe to your social accounts even?

DJ: Yeah, it’s definitely social media. We were inspired by hotels that we saw on social media. That had a very beautiful aesthetic. And we knew if we were inspired folks in the short term rental industry, all me and my four partners, my wife, my brother in law, Moody and Katie, we all like to travel and we all like to stay at hotels.

DJ: So we thought, Hey, if we’re going to dig this, then probably the public is going to dig this. Especially if we’re bringing something entirely new to Palm Springs, that Palm Springs really doesn’t have. So that’s huge. It’s just the overall aesthetic and everything was very intentional. No. So we have a selfie mirror so that, you know, girls can, as they’re stopping by, can take selfies and they put it on social media and now they’re branding for us, all of our, if you look at our Instagram, Yara Palm Springs on Instagram, it’s again, very cohesive.

DJ: It’s very consistent. You’re not going to see my mug on, on Yara’s page because that’s not on brand for us. What’s on brand is our target customer avatar and our target customer avatar is some. A person more often than not female, um, elevated, right? Something luxurious, a traveler from Europe or people who like to travel, right?

DJ: And those are really the type of people that we like to establish influencer partnerships with. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to establish an influencer partnership with an influencer. Who’s a big foodie because we don’t have a restaurant, right? We like to establish influencer partnerships with women who like to travel specifically women who like to travel that have a large following that has good engagement.

DJ: And that’s really been the blueprint for us is leveraging those partnerships so that our reach is just. compounded and it’s exponential. Once these big accounts go and repost Yara and it has that beautiful aesthetic, then people want to share it. And it’s, it’s worked out amazing for us. And again, our website is found in Instagram.

DJ: So when someone looks at our Instagram, that’s where they find us. They click through the website and that’s how we’re able to funnel them and book direct with us. 

Gil: Nice. Nice. Have you had any cases where you started working with an influencer and it just didn’t actually drive enough traffic or didn’t drive much traffic at all?

Gil: And did you have any learnings on just working with influence in general, or did you actually, Kind of like knew all the right things and started to snowball. And what, what, what, what, what really worked. 

DJ: Yeah. You know, um, our partners, they take lead on a majority of the influencer partnerships for Yara hotel, which thankfully have all been, uh, generally successful.

DJ: We’re not going to please everyone. Right. And we always do our best. Um, there’s been certain times where sometimes the influencers will bring like a drone and then that will upset maybe the guests because it’s a small boutique hotel, it’s 10 key. Right. Um, on our short term rental portfolio, uh, we have leveraged influencer partnerships in the past and it’s never been successful for us personally, even though we’ve followed the same model of like a traveler, often women, people with high follower count, people with good engagement.

DJ: We. Had some folks come. I’m not going to, you know, point fingers or anything like that, but we had some folks come who had a very successful page. It was a travel page based in Southern California. They visited a lot of the top areas, which Joshua tree is located in Southern California and it’s a top area.

DJ: And these, Folks happen to think that Joshua Tree was really ghetto and they actually left early. So on the short term rental side, it hasn’t been the most beneficial for us. I know people like Rose Tipka, who are absolutely crushing it with the influencers on their short term rental. For us, it just hasn’t worked out.

DJ: And it’s been fantastic on Yara Hotel. 

Gil: Do you think that has to do with kind of where the location is like Joshua Tree versus Palm Springs? Or have you, have you figured out like what it might be? because like you mentioned, like Rose actually did really well on working with influencers. So like, it seems like there’s like some variable there that.

Gil: makes it more successful versus not. 

DJ: Yeah. Yeah. I do think so. I do think so. Joshua tree is the desert. And I think people forget that when they come where our properties are on acreage two and a half acres. And so people do weird things in the desert. And sometimes maybe your neighbors aren’t the cleanest.

DJ: Right. So I definitely think that does factor into it. Whereas Palm Springs. Excuse me. It’s in the city. Um, we have residential neighbors. You’re not on acreage, so it’s not like the next property is pretty far away. So the people can put a junkyard there or something like that. Not that any of our properties are next to junkyards, but we have had issues with dumping illegal dumping and things like that in the desert and Joshua tree.

DJ: So yeah, I think definitely the location has something to do with it, of course. 

Gil: Yeah. What’s um, what’s some of the other things that you do to get to that 65 percent direct booking rate, uh, outside of working with some pretty powerful influencers? 

DJ: Honestly, man, I think a lot of it happens to do with luck as well.

DJ: Luck, you know, what do they say about luck? It’s when. Preparation meets opportunity or when opportunity meets preparation or something like that. So we did everything that we could at the property level to make sure that the aesthetic was outstanding. It’s a vibe, man. I encourage everyone to check it out.

DJ: Like Yara is just, it’s so beautiful and it was intentionally built that way. And honestly, I think a little bit has to do with just luck too, because I’ve seen plenty of really good properties. That don’t do so well, or they don’t perform so well, or they don’t have the following that we have, we have a lot of really good relationships with people.

DJ: And we’re so grateful to have a strong network of individuals who have been able to share Yara. So that combined with. the influencers gave us a lot of explosive growth. So in the first, you know, I want to say within the first maybe three, four months of operation, we already had 10 K followers right on Instagram, which is huge, especially nowadays, because people are always saying that the algorithm, this and the algorithm, man, it’s hard for the algorithm to grow.

DJ: So it was really just us putting ourselves in a position. To be able to take advantage of luck. And, uh, we were the new kid on the block for a while. And so there’s a lot of pop, uh, hotels, boutique hotels in Palm Springs, but there aren’t very many yards. And so again, just a good combination of putting ourselves in the right position to do well, but also a little bit of luck, man.

Gil: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I’m kind of like evaluating like what you said and some of the things that you invest into. I think one of my takeaways is really around kind of the branding and how strong of a brand you can have with your boutique hotel and maybe contrasting that with kind of like the branding that you’re building with an STR.

Gil: It’s much harder to brand an STR that is a single unit and you can definitely brand entire portfolio. It sounds like with your boutique hotel, branding is actually a pretty big part of how you’re driving traffic, how you’re driving influence and driving desire and demand there. Because like you mentioned, everything is consistent, everything, the high bar, social media matches, the stay, like, That to me, it sounds like brand consistency more than anything else.

DJ: Oh yeah, bro. Definitely. Definitely. And I know folks who have been able to brand their short term rentals and again, they do very well. In my opinion, it’s easier to brand a boutique hotel because that’s what makes a boutique hotel. A boutique hotel is the fact that it’s a non flagged hotel. It’s a non franchise hotel and you have to give it a brand.

DJ: If you don’t give it a brand, Then you’re not going to do well. So it has to be its own brand that, plus the fact that it’s a little bit of a larger space. So we can sleep a total of 26 guests, which means if we’re packed, we have 26 people coming in and out of there daily, as opposed to an STR, which, you know, maybe you sleep six or eight people and maybe six or eight people aren’t always staying there.

DJ: Sometimes couples stay there. So it’s just the sheer volume of people that we have coming through the doors. Also kind of. allows us to uphold that brand because they’re just constantly people coming through. There’s a good stream of people and again, creating a really beautiful place that people want to share.

DJ: So it’s great that people do marketing for us. We’re very grateful. 

Gil: Yeah. I just look really up. I looked up really quickly. You mentioned Rose earlier and Rose being really successful at, um, really being able to drive traffic to her STRs. Like they’re, they’re not hotels or individual units, but. I think what she does really well is on the branding side and she does the entire experience and entire like how she actually prepares people to come and stay.

Gil: Her website is very consistent. Um, like she knows who her avatar is, why they’re staying there. She’s very personable. Like she’s built a brand and I think the brand actually surrounds her herself. And I think that’s why. Someone like her is able to be able to capture like the magnification using, um, like influencers that it’s a bit harder for folks that are doing single, like for me working with influencers, I have not found success.

Gil: And I think maybe a lot of that has to be attributed to really making sure that your, your stays, your portfolio actually has a really strong presence, brand presence. 

DJ: Again, bro, hats off to Rose. She’s been able to nail that. Like even her branding, your family’s place, like just from the name, you know, that families are going to go there and what better way to have marketing done for you is to have people do it for you.

DJ: So When people have good experiences, they want to share that and everybody is looking. Well, if you have a family, especially you’re looking at good places to take your family, right? And so Rose has done that again, from the point that you see her Instagram all the way until I’ve never been to Rose’s places, but I’m assuming all the way until you leave.

DJ: The, the actual short term rental, you know, that it’s your family’s place, right? That it’s a family friendly atmosphere. There’s going to be things for the whole family to do. And she caters to that. She does it so well. Rose is amazing when it comes to, uh, everything, but especially hospitality. 

Gil: Yeah. Yeah.

Gil: She’s, she’s really good. And she has a very sharp eye, very sharp vision. Like she’s building out her new place and she’s telling me about how she’s picking things out. And like this, the, the. The quality standards that she has. Um, she’s on a whole new level on another level. 

DJ: Yeah, bro. I agree. She’s cut from a different cloth, man.

DJ: And we got to have lunch with Rose too. And just like hearing her and how she talks to contractors and how she interfaces with people, like she has such high standards and she like. Communicates this and it comes across in a way that’s, uh, very strong, um, very feminine and very professional. And I just, my hat’s off to her.

DJ: Cause she’s incredible. I learned a lot from her. 

Gil: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. All right. DJ, uh, I think this might be a good transition to kind of the last segment of the show. Uh, I usually ask two questions, uh, folks, one’s a mindset question and then the other one’s a big takeaway question. So the mindset question first, what’s that one.

Gil: mindset advice that you would give to someone that’s starting something completely new?

DJ: One mindset advice I’d give to someone starting something completely new, so I think when we start things new, there’s a honeymoon period, and there’s a lot of excitement, and there’s a lot of, we’re gonna take the world on, and we got this, and then a couple of months into it, that excitement tends to wear off.

DJ: And it becomes, it can become hard. So I think one piece of mindset that I would offer to people who are new or wanting to get into this is just know that it’s going to be a long journey and try to enjoy that journey from the very beginning, because. You, you’re going to lose steam. You’re going to lose motivation.

DJ: You’re going to lose that honeymoon period. And there’s going to be a time where you’re going to have to do a lot of boring work when you’re building a business, it’s very different than you working for a corporate corporate atmosphere. When you work for a corporate atmosphere, the SOPs are in place.

DJ: The timesheets are in place. You’re plugged into a system. When you’re building a business, you have to build out that system. And that can often be very boring and it can be overwhelming. And you’re going to be wearing a ton of different hats. And so just know. That it’s not going to be an easy journey. I think a lot of people, especially gurus on Instagram, they sell this false idea of, Hey, just get two properties, quit your job, and then you got financial freedom.

DJ: And for the people that have been in this for a while, that may be true for some people. But it’s not true for everyone. In fact, it’s not true for a majority of people. So just preparing yourself to build something for the long haul and not trying to get rich quick, I think is one of the biggest mindset shifts that I’ve had.

DJ: Even in the very beginning, I’m like, all right, cool. Work for a couple of years. Then I’m going to set myself up for life, which we have been able to gather a lot of wealth. Over these last five years, which I’m extremely grateful for, but there’s always a new level and with, as my, one of my mentors likes to say with every new level, there’s a new devil that you’re going to have to conquer.

DJ: And the more you get into this, the more you have to do the boring work, the more you may be at your computer on spreadsheets. Till one, two in the morning, the more you’re trying to figure out automations or trying how to systematize your business or building out SOPs. And so just embracing the sucky part of your business in addition to embracing that newlywed good feeling phase of, Hey, I’m an entrepreneur now and I’m building my own business.

DJ: So I like to keep a real Gill and I would love to just be a hundred percent positive and say, it’s all good, but it’s very tough. And I just want people to know what they’re getting themselves into. 

Gil: Yeah. I love that. I love the, the candidness and this really the authenticity of like, like it, because I, I do hear very much the same where folks are saying it’s easy getting short term rentals.

Gil: There’s a lot of cashflow in it. It’s much better than LTRs. When you become the operator, it changes the way that your lifestyle is. You don’t get to take vacations anymore without having to find a co host. Like it changes, it just changes like what your Friday night looks like when everybody else checks in.

Gil: Like it changes just what you do and how you operate. And that, yes, you can. Automate a lot of those things. But yes, you’re right. You’re, you’re building a business and it’s not always going to be rosy. It’s not always going to be an easy path. Um, so I like the, the frankness there. 

DJ: Yeah, yeah. But it’s always worth it, bro.

DJ: In my opinion, it’s always worth it. 

Gil: The hard stuff are worth it. 

DJ: Yeah, definitely, man. The difference, uh, I think Seth Rogen said this the other day. Someone asked him, like, how are you a successful actor? Because he didn’t get his big break until he was well into his thirties. And he said the difference between people that have made it and people that had it is the people that made it just haven’t given up.

DJ: And I think that’s also true for entrepreneurship and business is just don’t give up, you know, um, Napoleon Hill and think and grow rich has that story about being three feet from gold. And I think a lot of people may find themselves, you know, three feet from gold and they tend to give up or they get shiny object syndrome or they go from LTRs to MTRs to STRs to house flipping.

DJ: And it’s just like, just don’t give up, like push through those sucky times. Cause I promise you. You’ll meet a new version of yourself at the end, and you’re going to be really proud of that version because that’s me, bro. I’m really proud of the person that I am now. 

Gil: Yeah, absolutely. All right. DJ, last question.

Gil: What’s the one big takeaway that you want to leave folks with today? What, what action, what tactic do you want them to start to think about or put in practice? 

DJ: The right team, 100%. I think we chatted about this, you know, throughout, it was kind of a common theme that we chatted about, about this today. Um, just link up with the right team and strong members within that team, because.

DJ: You may like somebody and they may be a good friend, but that doesn’t mean that you guys are going to make a good team. And so really putting in the work to vet your potential team members, to make sure that we have a complimentary strength so that everybody is working in their individual roles and responsibilities, but having a good team.

DJ: And then the second part of that is being able to memorialize. your agreement on paper and having something like a very strong operating agreement so that one you have an aspect of accountability just in case stuff happens to go wrong because eventually as you do this long enough and you do a lot more deals stuff will go wrong and you’re going to have to lean on those operating agreements to go back to To what’s in writing and say, Hey, you know what?

DJ: Like, these are your roles and responsibilities. These are my roles and responsibilities. Why isn’t that getting fulfilled? So again, just having the right team can really make or break your business and having the right team can really Excel and propel you to where you want to be. And I’m living proof of that, man.

DJ: Like I said, I was a shovel bum. I was an archeologist. I would sleep in my car on dig sometimes with the sleeping bag, making 55, 000 a year before taxes. Right. Um, and now I’m in a completely different position and that’s thanks to other people. And that’s thanks to the teams that I’ve been able to be extremely blessed to be a part of, man.

Gil: Yeah. Yeah. And you’re, you’re also, uh, someone new dad. Is that right? 

DJ: Oh yeah, dude. We have, uh, our baby girl is going to be 11 months in three days. 

Gil: Yeah. I think you have brought a new baby into the world at just the right time in your life where you do have the flexibility. You have a lot more means than, than, than much before.

Gil: So I think that that kid’s going to have a very wonderful life and gets to learn from some of your goodness as well too. 

DJ: Oh yeah, bro. My wife and I go, we’re so grateful that we get to wake up with our daughter. Sometimes we both drop her off at childcare. We both pick her up and I know that that’s very rare and I know that a lot of people don’t have it.

DJ: And man, I’m so glad you brought that up because I am so grateful. Like we literally talk about how grateful we are that we get to do that. Um, and that’s, that’s, thanks to real estate and thanks to hospitality, man, that thanks to the business we’ve been able to build. 

Gil: Yeah. Also, thanks to your, your hard work as well.

DJ: Oh, a ton of that. 

Gil: And your team. Yes. 

DJ: A ton of hard work, man. A ton of 17 hour days, 18 hour days, a ton of working on holidays. Like barely this year Gil, we started taking holidays off prior to this year. Holidays was a day to catch up on all the other work that we had done. Now we get to take holidays off and I don’t take it for granted, bro.

DJ: I really don’t. Yeah. 

Gil: Yeah. I bet you there’s days where you slow down. You just enjoy being a father. I’ve done that more recently where I’m like, okay, my kids are in summer right now. I don’t get a chance to see them as much as later on when they don’t want to see me as much. So like, I’m taking advantage of some of the flexibility and like, we’ve worked hard to get to where we are today.

Gil: And like, I don’t want to look back and regret, like not taking the extra day or two to take them to the amusement park or to take them out to the beach or whatever it is. 

DJ: Yeah, bro. I very beautifully said, man, I don’t know about you, but sometimes it’s almost like a conundrum because if I’m in my business, I’m like, man, I really want to be with my daughter.

DJ: And then when I’m with my daughter, sometimes I think about business and I’m like, man, I need to be building my business. So it’s a fine line, but I agree. Recently I have been enjoying just being a dad a lot more, um, which ultimately makes me better in business too, because that’s my why. Like my why is to build a better life so that we can have true time, location and financial freedom for the rest of our lives and not have to worry about being tied to a W two or a certain location or, you know, finances or anything like that.

DJ: And we do it, my wife and I do it because my daughter and because we want to give her, and if we have any other children, you know, the best life possible. 

Gil: I think they will. I hope so. 

DJ: That’s why we’re working so hard, bro. 

Gil: All right. DJ, where can folks find out more about you? Uh, they want to follow you.

Gil: They want to find out about your projects that you’re working on or just keep in touch with you. How can folks reach you? 

DJ: Yeah. The best place is Instagram at David J Fornelli, F O R N E L L I. Follow us, uh, follow our hotel, Yara Palm Springs on Instagram. Uh, my wife and I actually are hosting our very first.

DJ: In person workshop on July 27th. So I’m not sure when this episode is coming out, but we plan to have more in person workshops and our whole goal is to help people build the systems and tools within their real estate business so they can get more of their time back. So follow us on Instagram so people can learn more about our workshops because it’s our, we see it as our mission and our duty to be able to help other people.

DJ: And that’s ultimately what we want to do moving forward. 

Gil: That’s awesome. All right. I’ll make sure to drop the links to both of your Instagram accounts on there as well, too. Um, so if people can click right there, thank you. Thank you, sir. Awesome. DJ, it was really good having you on. It was really good to understand kind of how you got to where you are and really the kind of the humble beginnings of it all.

Gil: And some of the risks that you took to get to where you are and looking back at like how much growth you’ve done with not just yourself, but the team that you’ve built and your, just your overall mindset of how you got to where you are. 

DJ: Talk. Thank you, Gil. I appreciate that, man. It’s been an honor. You asked, I like this.

DJ: I really like this. He asked good questions. This is very personal and I just appreciate being the opportunity to be on your show. 

Gil: Yeah. I mean, for me, I started this podcast originally to help folks really get really comfortable with direct bookings and really sharing some of the knowledge between different hosts.

Gil: And a lot of times we, there’s not enough, um, content around some of these things. And what ended up finding out is like, yes. I do want to help folks with the direct booking side, but also there’s a big component like mindset. A lot of us are getting into short term rentals. We’re getting into it and we’re learning along the way.

Gil: We’re trying new things. We’re, we’re trying investing for, for, for many different reasons. And we’re growing our portfolio and we’re constantly learning. And the biggest thing that I always take away is like, it’s not always just about the tactic, but also your mindset on just life in general and how you approach things.

Gil: And I find that if you have the right mindset. Like you can actually learn a lot of different things. You can muster, um, many different challenges. So like that to me is a big component of this, the show. 

DJ: Yeah, I love that, man. I think that personal development and professional development go hand in hand.

DJ: And mindset is a huge part of that because it takes a certain mindset to build your business. And I think that carries over into our personal lives as well. So I agree with you wholeheartedly. Awesome. 

Gil: All right, DJ, it was really good having you on the show. I can’t wait to have you back at some future and when you have your 12th hotel and talk about all the learnings there.

DJ: Yeah, I’d love to. Then we can really get into direct bookings more, man. But thanks again for having me on the show and I hope the listeners, I hope your listeners got some value from this today. 

Gil: I think they did. I think they did. Thanks, DJ. 

DJ: Thank you, bro.