Welcome to this week’s podcast with Alex Husner, former CMO of Condo-World, CEO of Directly Alex, and podcast host of Alex & Annie. Alex shows us how large property management companies invest in marketing and tactics smaller property managers can deploy to build their brands. She breaks down the components within her marketing flywheel.
Summary and Topic Highlights
In our latest podcast episode, we had the pleasure of hosting Alex Husner, a seasoned podcast host and marketing expert with over a decade of experience in the property management sector. Alex joined us to dissect the crucial elements that contribute to successfully securing direct bookings in today’s competitive market.
Building a Strong Brand Foundation
Alex emphasized that building a brand is not just important; it’s essential for hosts aiming to expand their inventory or manage multiple properties effectively. This begins with clearly defining your unique selling points, core message, identifying target personas, and crafting effective communication strategies.
Harnessing the Power of Content Strategy
A robust content strategy is pivotal not only for SEO but also for establishing authority within your market niche. Alex recommended focusing on creating compelling travel guides, highlighting local points of interest, and producing destination-specific content to attract and engage potential guests.
Leveraging Email Marketing Effectively
Despite the rise of new marketing channels, Alex reaffirmed that email marketing remains a potent tool for hosts. She advised hosts to collect guest emails, segment their lists based on preferences and behaviors, and craft targeted campaigns aligned with booking seasons and local events.
Making PPC Work for You
Even smaller hosts can benefit from PPC advertising by targeting niche keywords related to their properties or unique amenities. Alex stressed the importance of strategic keyword selection and continuous optimization to maximize ROI on PPC campaigns.
Harnessing User-Generated Content
Alex highlighted the value of user-generated content (UGC) as a powerful marketing asset. Encouraging guests to share their experiences through photos and testimonials can significantly enhance credibility and attract new bookings.
Optimizing Tech Stack and Guest Communication
Regularly auditing your tech tools and guest communication flow is crucial. Alex advised hosts to streamline operations and enhance the guest experience by testing the booking process from a guest’s perspective and identifying areas for improvement.
Embracing Continuous Learning and Networking
Staying abreast of industry trends through podcasts, conferences, and networking events is essential for growth. Alex encouraged hosts to remain open to learning from peers and industry experts to adapt and innovate continually.
Streamlining Operations and Enhancing Efficiency
Consolidating tech tools wherever possible can streamline operations and potentially reduce costs. Alex recommended evaluating current tools to ensure they align with business goals and enhance overall efficiency.
Personalizing Guest Experiences
Lastly, Alex emphasized the importance of personalized and timely guest communication. Creating positive guest experiences through personalized interactions can foster loyalty and increase repeat bookings.
Conclusion: Embrace Innovation and Adaptability
In closing, Alex advised hosts to embrace innovation, immerse themselves in learning resources, and be willing to adapt based on new insights. She encouraged hosts to take calculated risks, explore new strategies, and remain proactive in refining their approach to indirect bookings.
Stay tuned for more insights and expert advice on optimizing your property management marketing strategies. Subscribe to our podcast for the latest episodes and updates on mastering indirect bookings in the ever-evolving hospitality landscape. Remember, success lies in continuous learning, strategic adaptation, and leveraging the right tools and strategies to stand out in your market.
Follow Alex on instagram @alexohusner
Interested in joining happy guests? Click on the “Happy Guest” image below, for Alex’s referral link for our podcast guests.
Transcription
Alex: If you’re building this, that you want it to be a company that you either are, you own the inventory and you want to be owning more inventory, or you want to be managing additional properties for somebody else. You really need to be looking at this in the perspective of you’re building a brand. If you’re trying to manage, um, or own more properties and rent them, you have to be building a brand early on and, you know, taking a deep dive into what do you want it to be known for?
Alex: I mean, what’s going to be the differentiator in your market? What is the core message? What are the personas that you’re trying to attract and how do you talk to them differently and what tactics that you’re going to use to talk to them?
Gil: Hey folks, welcome back to direct booking simplified. We break down the strategies and tactics to win a direct bookings on today’s show. We have Alex Husner. She’s a podcast host herself and has over a decade experience of working with big property management companies on nailing the marketing today.
Gil: She’s going to break down the foundational pieces. to win indirect bookings. So let’s bring her in here. Alex, welcome to the show.
Alex: Thank you so much for having me. It’s great to be on the other side of the mic for once.
Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s really good to meet you. I know you, you normally work with much larger hosts and property management teams, but it’s, uh, it’s good to have you on the show and really show us kind of the other side of how professionals do it.
Alex: I’m excited to dive into it and, and, uh, just have a great conversation. Love talking about everything, direct booking. So this will be fun.
Yeah. So it’s kind of kick us off, Alex. Do you mind giving folks a brief introduction to yourself?
Alex: Sure. So, um, as Gil said, my name is Alex Husner. I’m based in Myrtle beach, South Carolina.
Alex: Uh, I’ve been in vacation rentals Since 2008, and for 13 years worked with a company called condo world here in the north, Brittle Beach market as their chief marketing officer. Um, and really got to see in the, in that third time, 13 year timeline, a company that was, was doing well, was established in the market, but was just really, um, in a position to grow and, uh, really just gain a lot of market share here.
Alex: And, and that’s, Exactly what we did in that timeframe, but we grew from 150 properties to over 500, um, and also became an OTA for the entire Myrtle Beach area, as well as some other destinations along the Southeast using the Condo World brand and our technology to be able to book reservations for these other property managers.
Alex: But just, we just did the booking part. So the guests would still check in with the resort or the manager. Um, but we, really were able to streamline the marketing and leverage the size of our brand to be able to help those, those people compete with right alongside Airbnb, VRBO. There’s for a long time there, we were spending the same amount of money as those brands were in the market on PPC.
Alex: So we were competing pretty, pretty high stakes up there. Um, But we had a wonderful career there in 2022. Um, I made the decision to move on to a different job at a company called Costco, which is a national vacation rental management company. That’s a franchise model where essentially we. Uh, sold our system support framework to most mostly existing property management businesses that wanted to have that structure to be able to Um grow and scale their business in some cases They were new property managers that they wanted to have this to get started with and get you know A great start right out of the gates Um and was there for about a year got to Be involved in growing the East coast and to Costco markets for, um, Myrtle beach, Daytona beach, um, Orlando Gulf shores, um, and a couple of others.
Alex: And it was, it was a great experience, but I was certainly more, I was CMO for that company, but I was more on the business development side of things and really just missed what I. You know, where my history and experience really lies, which is in direct bookings, um, you know, building the brand internally for a company.
Alex: So heading into 2024 made the decision to go off on my own, start my own business, which is a fractional CMO, uh, marketing consultancy firm where I can work with companies either, um, directly with them, or sometimes I bring on a team of people with me to basically be there. They’re, uh, an extension of their team, uh, basically an outsourced marketing department.
Alex: Um, so that, that’s, that’s kind of where I’m at right now. I have, uh, Alex and Annie, the real women of vacation rentals podcast that I’ve been doing for about two years, two and a half years now with my, uh, Podcast partner, Annie Holcomb, and that’s been a huge source of inspiration and also just has enabled both of us really to grow in our careers by the connections that we’ve made.
Alex: And it’s just been a lot of fun. And I’m sure, you know, just doing this podcast too, it’s, you learn as much as you are able to share and it becomes a really fulfilling kind of hobby as well as a, as a passion. Um, so yeah, that’s, that’s what I’m focused on right now. Just Working in my consulting business and the podcast.
Gil: Nice. Nice. Um, you also have some other things going on right now. Um, can you tell us a little bit about, uh, one of the new projects that you picked up recently?
Alex: Yeah, sure. So thank you for the reminder. Um, so, and, and if we want to backtrack a little bit on, you know, some of the things that I learned working for, working with you.
Alex: With very big operators and how you really build a brand and a, and a direct booking strategy. Um, a lot of that comes down to the communication that you have with those guests and the different touch points that, that you have along their journey from, you know, the interest phase of them getting to, and to know you like you, and then to try you and then to eventually book with you, then, uh, repeat book with you, and then hopefully refer you to their friends and family.
Alex: And we’d be him. Pretty much experts at that over the years really perfected that process. Um, when I look at a lot of companies now, and this really doesn’t matter whether they’re large companies or individual hosts, um, the communication flow with guests is, is pretty shaky at best that there’s a lot of different ways that hosts are, are contacting guests, whether it’s through Airbnb or through the rental contract they have to sign through their PMS or their guidebook.
Alex: It’s just, it’s. All over the place. Um, and that makes it very hard for a guest to remember who they booked with when they’re ready to book with you next year. And I had an opportunity that came up earlier this year to come in as a co founder of, um, a new platform called happy guest and happy guest is essentially a streamlines those communications from the time of booking until post day in a really fun way that it makes the guest feel like.
Alex: Okay. This is, this is fun going through this process. Like it’s going to get them excited about their stay and just sets them off on a, on a good, on a good note. But all the, all the while still reinforcing your company and your brand, um, and getting them back into the funnel. Cause it really, it’s, it’s a, it’s a circular funnel.
Alex: And hopefully if you keep these guests coming back year after year, You’re not having to rely on Airbnb or, you know, traditional marketing that you’re spending a lot of money on. So that’s, that’s, that’s the new, new that I’ve got going on right now too.
Gil: Yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s very, really interesting.
Gil: Are you still using the. Platforms, messaging platform, or are you telling them or you’re communicating them on a new, new platform altogether?
Alex: So it still uses the messaging platform that you’re on. So if a guest booked on Airbnb, you would send them the link to this. It’s not an app. Um, and which, that was one thing that I really liked about it.
Alex: Me personally, I don’t like having to go download. An app, every time I go somewhere, stay somewhere, it’s just, it’s clunky. And my phone has so many apps on it that you can’t even find the ones that you know what they look like because it’s just overload looking at your home screen. Um, so it, it is, it’s a link that the guests would go to.
Alex: And it makes it really easy that way too. So if they want to share the link with their friends and family, they’re easily able to do that versus saying to friends and family, okay, I have to invite you to the app and now you have to download it. And a lot of what I’ve seen, you know, just in the last couple of months as I’ve been.
Alex: Um, going out in the consulting side, uh, even, you know, big brands that they’ve been around for, for a long time, that a lot of them are using an app that was built into their software. But there’s a lot of people that are traveling. If you’ve got, you know, elderly people or, you know, different members of the party that might be elderly, that they don’t want They don’t want to download an app.
Alex: So I think it doesn’t matter whether you’re my age or much older. There’s a lot of people that don’t necessarily want to have to do that. And the ease and simplicity of how a happy guest, um, is presented to guests. It just makes it really easy for everyone to get the information that they need and get them started, you know, on a good note.
Gil: Got it. Is a, is happy guests open to the public already?
Alex: So it is, we are. We are doing it by invitation only. So I, I would say it is and it isn’t so . Um, I, I do have invitations that I’m able to, to give out at this point. Um, you know, listeners, if they’re interested, they can go to happy guest referrals.com/simplified, and that gives you a form that you can fill out and then we’ll reach out to you with more information on it.
Gil: I definitely wanna hear more about this. I, I hear about this quite a bit more on the direct booking side, less on like the OTA side, but, Mm-Hmm. , when you. When you book on the OTAs, like Airbnb. They already download the app, you can communicate fairly well on those,
Speaker 3: but
Gil: I think the real problem is when you’re going on direct and you don’t have an app that’s already downloaded, there’s no communication channels.
Gil: So like if someone’s looking for the checking information, the address, all of that, it’s, there’s not a home place for them to go to, to get a lot of that information. That’s the one of the big challenges I’ve seen with direct bookings.
Alex: Yeah, yeah, it is for sure. And you know, I think the timing of when these communications are sent out is critically important because if you book a stay now and you’re not coming for six months, it’s great that you have all the information right up front, but now six months comes and you’re about to check in.
Alex: Now you’ve got to scramble through your emails and try and find our Airbnb or wherever the message was that had that information. Um, so the, the timing of when the messages are sent out. Are delivered no matter which platform or or tactic that you’re using is, is really important.
Gil: Yeah, I hear you on that one.
Gil: Uh, Alex, let, let’s transition a little bit and, and talk a little bit about your many years of experience in, um, the property management world and how, um, folks that have been doing it at much larger scales, what are some of the foundational pieces that they put in place to make sure that they get those repeat bookings, they’re getting new eyes into it.
Gil: Um, talk to me a little bit about some of those foundational pieces.
Alex: Sure. So, I mean, the way that I look at marketing and the way that the companies I’ve worked, worked for have, um, is really, it’s, it’s like a flywheel. So there’s different touch points on how you get guests into that phase of, as I mentioned earlier, of like that, you know, no phase there, they know who you are, they might be interested, but then how do you keep them going around in that, in that loop?
Alex: And there’s the, the major components, of course, it starts with your website. And you’re a website without content is basically useless. So your website has to become, um, a content hub for anything that’s going on in the area. Um, there’s a lot of benefit to having that approach to content that, you know, essentially you become like the trusted authoritative source of tourism within the area that you’re in.
Alex: So that means writing, you know, uh, POIs, points of interest, um, travel guides, different content that it might not initially. Seem like, I don’t know exactly how I’m going to get a booking from this, but when you have content that’s built out in a meaningful way, that’s promoting the destination that isn’t, you know, super salesy, even necessarily in the properties, your site is going to rank better.
Alex: So your SEO rankings are going to improve. And the more organic traffic that you can get, certainly the better, because that means that you will hopefully be able to offset. Some of that traffic that you’ll end up paying for through, you know, PPC or Facebook ads or anywhere else that you’re paying to get people to your site.
Alex: So the site and the content is very important. Um, next to that PPC has always been a very great way of driving business and driving people that are truly interested if they’re searching for, Condo rentals and Myrtle beach, you know, that’s an active audience. That’s right in front of you. Um, the challenge with that, if you’re a smaller company is if you don’t have.
Alex: A lot of inventory on your site, you can spend, you can end up spending a lot of money and your conversion rate’s going to be low. We were always, that was one of the benefits of how we grew it to be more like an OTA for the area. We were able to compete with Vervo and Airbnb, you know, in a meaningful and sizable way in those budgets because we had over 5, 000 properties, you know, collectively to market.
Alex: Um, but. That being said, even if it, you do have a website that has a smaller portfolio, PPC can still be used really well. If you make sure that your keywords and your searches are really dialed into the type of inventory that you have. Um, so that’s, that’s one. The second part of it. Um, the third email marketing, email marketing is, is huge.
Alex: So making sure that you’re always collecting the emails of the, of your guests, especially if they book on another platform and not on your own website, that is one cool part about happy guests. Also, that’s one of the first steps when, uh, if you send the link to a guest through Airbnb messenger, One of the first steps in happy guest is to collect their email from them.
Alex: So you’re not having to separately ask for that. Um, but then once you get the emails, you have to have a plan of what to do with them. And I think there’s a lot of great technology out there right now for email collection with like the wifi routers. Um, you know, stay five is a great one. Silicon travel is another.
Alex: But just having the emails isn’t enough. You have to plan content and promotion around communicating to the guests. We always set up our email marketing, um, based on campaigns throughout the year. So looking at, you know, come January, that’s the early booking spring booking, um, type of types of content that we’re putting out.
Alex: What’s new in Myrtle beach. Like what, um, what are the top attractions for this type of travel or the top restaurants for this type of. You know, occasion, stuff like that. Um, and then after early bookings, we went into, um, you know, typically looking at, um, Memorial day, early summer, late summer, fall holidays.
Alex: And within each of those campaigns, it drills down to some more specifics about. Um, specific holidays that fall within that time period or, um, specific reasons for visiting if there was events or anything like that. So again, on that flywheel, that’s where the email marketing, if you have the content strategy from the first part, it becomes a lot easier to be sending things out when you’ve got that library of content that you can.
Alex: refer back to and infuse into this side. Um, beyond that part, Facebook ads have been very successful, uh, in my experience. And really the, the best success I’ve had is more in retargeting people that have already been on your website. So using the Facebook pixel to get them back into the funnel, they might not.
Alex: At that point be on facebook to book a vacation, but now they’re seeing your ad again They’re remembering that you’re on they’re on your site or taking Um making a look alike audience based on the people that have visited your site That’s also very effective too and can be done by using the facebook pixel Um, let’s see beyond that.
Alex: I mean just I guess kind of more on The content side of additional types of content using video, using great photography, it used to be back in the day that if you had, if you were a company that invested in photography, you could really set yourself apart. Uh, I think most, most companies, most hosts now have good photography.
Alex: There’s some that have excellent photography and that is more of the differentiator, but it’s really important to make sure that you’ve got great assets for the properties and really even. You know, taking the time to get great photography of the area that you own, that you’re not going to see on another listing in the same town, um, that can be a key differentiator.
Alex: And I think showing that type of photography and videos is important in your listings because that will make you stand out differently, you know, compared to the competition. Cause at the end of the day, there’s a lot of beautiful properties and just about any destination you go to, but what is going to make, you know, those properties really stand out.
Gil: Yeah. You’re, you’re absolutely, you’re absolutely right on the photography side of things. I think like even in the last, last three years, I feel like hosts have really kicked it up a few notches in terms of just the professionalism and how they design the place, how they photograph the place and the properties that you see in almost every market now, it’s, it’s a lot more mature and you’re, you’re having to compete a lot harder than maybe the past.
Gil: I don’t know if you agree with that. Yeah.
Alex: Yeah. Oh, definitely. Yeah. I mean, it’s just in Myrtle Beach alone. I think the number of listings on Airbnb from 2022 to 2023 grew like 60%. I mean, it’s just, it’s an incredible amount of growth that companies or hosts that got in right around COVID or before COVID, they saw a lot of success by just being able to, you Only list on those platforms, but now there’s so much inventory that you constantly have to be looking for things to make your listings stand out.
Alex: And, and you have to be optimizing them. I mean, that’s, you know, that comes down to the algorithms that the OTAs use. That’s, that’s a, it’s a big thing and you, it’s not a set it and forget it. You’ve really got to be looking at your listings all the time. And, uh, there’s, there’s some, there’s some great software out there that helps you optimize.
Alex: There’s some great. Um, You know, people within our space that are great at writing the content for it. I, I don’t think that you can let AI do everything. I’m definitely not in that camp. Uh, it has to sound authentic and you know, that’s, that’s an important, important thing to think about too.
Gil: Yeah. Yeah. I definitely agree with you on like the content side of things and specifically the, the copy that you have in almost all your marketing materials.
Gil: We’ve, we’ve had a guest on the show that specifically does copywriting and it makes a world of a difference in making sure that. The folks that do visit your properties or do visit your direct booking sites, or maybe receiving your emails, it feels like the message was really crafted for them. So I agree.
Gil: And yeah, I agree with you. AI, it can help with really the structure of it, but I think the end copy does need to be written by someone that knows the space and knows your, your avatar quite well.
Alex: Yeah. Yep. Absolutely.
Gil: You, you mentioned PPCs, uh, just a little while ago, um, and specifically how smaller hosts can really, um, use that to their advantage, um, even when they might have the scale inventory by, by niching down.
Gil: Um, first off, can you explain to folks what PPC is and kind of what are some of the tactics When you might not have large scales and still can can buy advertising against certain keywords.
Alex: Sure. Yeah, so PPC Google Google pay per click advertising Google AdWords Bing also has an AdWords platform as well.
Alex: I’ve run ads on both platforms Bing doesn’t get You know, nearly as much volume, but it can be a good addition to your strategy because it is, it’s not quite as competitive, so you can be paying less per click, but essentially you come up with a, a budget that you’re willing to spend per month, um, to drive traffic of people searching on the search engines to your site, and you can have those pages linked specifically if you had a page where it’s just your oceanfront homes or just your mountain homes.
Alex: You know, based on a geographical area, you know, really dialing in those landing pages to make them convert better as part of that strategy. Um, and as far as the keywords, you know, I mentioned like Myrtle beach, condo rentals, that’s a huge keyword and everybody wants to be on page one for that, which, which kind of world was, was, and is still, we were, we’re number one, um, on that for many, many years.
Alex: And that’s, it was a huge driver of traffic, but even still, we would also Pay on PPC for the term because you still had even as your organic listing you had so many other companies competing in the paid side Um, but as a smaller host that’s going to be an expensive term to be able to go out and bid for so dialing in on Probably the geographical area or the amenities that make sense for the property.
Alex: So if it’s a oceanfront home in Cherry Grove Beach, you know, with, with pool oceanfront, um, pools in Cherry Grove Beach, I mean, different, different keywords and amenities that are specific to your type of inventory, you’re going to, it’s going to be less volume of people searching there, but you’ll be able to do better on the conversion rate.
Alex: And the nice thing is with. PPC ads when you can set your budget, you can pause it, you can change different strategies within it. So it’s a good thing to be able to test and not worry about. You’re not going to, you’re not committed to something that if it’s not working, you have to continue doing it.
Alex: It’s fully controlled by you or whoever you hire to manage the account for you.
Gil: Yeah. You mentioned something just interesting just now about landing pages. Um, when you’re buying PPCs, what have you seen most effective? Are you directing traffic back to specific properties, the homepage, a specific landing page, or maybe even a lead magnet of some sorts?
Alex: Yeah, it, we would always do it by the area that they were searching. So in this market, Myrtle Beach is the broad name for the entire region, which is really 60 miles. But within underneath the Myrtle Beach umbrella, there’s North Myrtle Beach and Central Myrtle Beach and Polly’s Island and Litchfield and, you know, different parts of the beach and some even more minute areas like Cherry Grove Beach.
Alex: I mentioned that that’s in North Myrtle, but it’s a, it’s a subdivision beach area of an area. Um, so just making sure that the keyword we were bidding on was going to go to a page that really answered the search that somebody was, was asking for. Um, I, I’m not against sending traffic to your homepage. If the traffic makes sense to go there.
Alex: And if you have a homepage that is going to get people into the search and it’s very easy for somebody to understand what the purpose of landing there is. But again, the nice thing is you can test it. So you can run some ads going to a homepage or a landing page or, um, an individual property page. If that was the route that you also wanted to take, and you can.
Alex: You can test and see which one works best and then whichever one is performing the most, keep that one on and turn the other ones off.
Gil: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. So you’re really what you’re kind of reiterating what you said, what you’re trying to do is really tailor the landing page to specifically what that call to action was on the ad.
Gil: Um, so if the call to action is specifically towards the market, then you’re driving towards the market page. But if it’s specifically for a particular property that you might be promoting, it might be towards that.
Alex: Yep, exactly. That’s correct.
Gil: Nice. Um, in, in some of the emails that you send out, um, you mentioned a lot about different holidays that may, might be coming up, um, different, uh, events that may be, may be occurring.
Gil: Um, do you also send out or do you find it being effective to send out emails? Also the kind of the sequences when people kind of get into the funnel for the first time. Um, the difference is kind of between like a broadcast email where it’s very event based versus a sequence email. Have you found one more effective than the other?
Alex: Yeah. And so we use kind of a, um, unique, Philosophy here. That’s a little advanced, but, um, it worked. And so if did, it was almost like a, uh, Reverse or an early cart abandonment process. So if somebody came on our website and did a search, they were prompted to provide their email address. They could skip it, but we got that early on in the process, um, which when.
Alex: We first started talking about this idea. I said, I don’t, I don’t think people are going to want to do that. They’re not going to want to give their email. Um, and the nice thing was the way we rolled it out was we did it as an AB test and we did 10 percent of the traffic that received that version of the homepage versus the 90, and then we watched the conversion rate as each one went side by side.
Alex: And when we got to 50 percent of the traffic on both different cases and saw the conversion rate was so much higher on the ones where we were getting the email address early We said, let’s turn it all on. So we did that. But the way that that worked was if the guests were to book on that visit, then they’re not getting any of the, any sort of automated emails, right?
Alex: If they did not book now, they get an email a couple hours after they were on our site. And the email was in nature. Um, Very conversational, friendly, hospitable. You know, we saw you were looking to come to Myrtle beach in May. That’s a beautiful time of year to visit. We’d love to help you with some recommendations, or if you’re ready to continue your search, you can click to get back into.
Alex: Into the website. And when they would click to go back to the site, it would bring them back to the dates that they had selected. Everything was all cookie for them. Um, so that was kind of part of the automated flow. Those emails did really, really well. I mean, just like anybody who’s done card abandonment, or if you’ve been on e commerce sites to do card abandonment, abandonment, it’s no secret that those perform well.
Alex: The difference in how we did it was just how early we put it on in the funnel. Um, but if they, if they did not book. After they got that first automated email, um, then they were gonna, they would be added into our regular email programming that went out. Um, depending on what list the person fell in, they would get something typically one to two times a week.
Alex: So we were pretty aggressive with the email marketing, um, that to do. Two emails a week is a lot for either an individual host or a company in a lot of cases, but, uh, because we had so much content and we built so much strategy around. You know what we were promoting and really just building as the authority for condo world in the, in this market.
Alex: It made sense. I mean, our, our, our employees. Our open rates, our conversion rates were still excellent. Um, and did a lot of heavy lifting and database cleaning and always making sure we were following best practices with it. So I think the best case scenario is you’re using, utilizing both strategies that you have some that are automated, but then some that are not, that are more, you know, specific purpose driven emails part.
Alex: You know, more tied into the, what the marketing strategy is for the company.
Gil: Yeah, that’s super clever. Yeah, I, I come from the e-commerce world, so card abandonment is something that is near and dear to me. Um, yeah, but I, I haven’t heard anyone use it that kind of far up the, the funnel there. Have you seen other folks in the industry kind of follow suit or anyone doing something as, as clever as that?
Alex: Um, I’ve seen some companies do it. It’s, I’m surprised it’s not more, uh, widely used to be honest, because I, I speak about it when I’m at, at conferences and, um, sometimes people will ask about it, but you know, that’s the thing about why I love going to these conferences too. You can, you can share what you’ve done.
Alex: It’s, it’s. I have no problem sharing my experience and what I’ve done because at the same time, somebody, if they want to go and try and do it, they’re always, it’s never going to be exactly the same, how, how you did it. And yeah, I, I don’t look at things as, uh, from a competitive standpoint of, you know, it’s not trade secrets.
Alex: If you went on our website, you’d be able to figure out that’s what we did. Um, but. To that point, I don’t think that there’s a ton of companies doing it. I think there’s a huge opportunity for more to explore in that space because we saw how successful it was. Um, and, and one thing that we tied to it also with that program was at the, when somebody checked out when they were done with their stay, um, there was a user generated content.
Alex: Part of how all this worked. So if they, when they got the email to ask them to rate their stay on one to five, if it was a four or a five, they were prompted to share a memory from their stay. So we would ask like at certain times of the year, if we wanted to get pictures of, uh, attractions, the question might’ve been, um, tell us a story about the, you know, the, the, That your favorite attraction that you visited while you were in town and they would write, you know, a little blurb about that, another comment about staying specifically with us.
Alex: And then they were asked to share a photo memory. And with the photo that they shared, if they were being entered into a contest to win, we had it set up as the grand prize was a free three night stay, um, 365 days. And. By doing that. And because we had this all mapped out and legally and everything else, we were able to get amazing content from our guests and not, not all the pictures are great, but for the ones that are there, some of our best marketing was content that came from our guests of families on the beach or, um, you know, a grandmother that is in a wheelchair on the beach, but she’s able to be down there cause they’ve got the beach wheelchair with her.
Alex: Um, people. Proposing on the beach. I mean, all these different incredible memories, um, you know, big and small that just really helped us tell the story of why guests stayed with us. And I think at the end of the day, that’s probably the biggest takeaway and thing I can stress is that, you know, People are staying with you for the experience that they’re going to enjoy with the people that they’ve brought with them.
Alex: You know, the property is great, but they’re not there just for the property in most cases. So, you know, having that lens, um, it can become really powerful. And again, that’s another tactic that I don’t think enough, um, companies or hosts really have leaned into. And I will say, I know from when we first initially tried to get user generated content to do photo contests.
Alex: Uh, we had some terrible experiences because it can really be a challenge to manage it and to, to do these contests online. We had tried to build one ourselves and it ended up being a disaster that you had people that were voting on their own picture multiple times and they didn’t win and they said, well, I had, I had the most votes.
Alex: And so we, we clicked. Quickly learned we needed to find, you know, a way to do this, that was going to keep us out of the weeds of managing these contests and like more focused on using the content that was submitted. Um, we were able to do that, so it all worked out, but it was the challenge in the early days.
Gil: So what happens if they did a ranked, a rating of like one to three then? Did they go into a different funnel?
Alex: Yep. Yep. So they would go just to more of like a, uh, contact form or not contact form, but a submission form where they could, the, the question would say, no, we’re, we’re sorry to hear that your stay wasn’t a five star experience.
Alex: Please let us know how we could have improved. So, and the purpose behind that was also psychological of. Let’s get, if they have frustrations or issues, let’s get them to tell us privately before now going to Google business page or, you know, back to a verbal or Airbnb listing. And that worked really well.
Gil: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I definitely see that a lot in like e commerce and even like the service industry, uh, of using those, those star ratings. And I’m, I’m, I’m glad to see it also used in, in hospitality as well, too. Well, uh, kind of going back to the card abandonment. And kind of why folks may not do it. Why do you think folks haven’t adopted some of those, um, tactics is, I mean, or maybe it’s a different way.
Gil: Do you feel that folks may or may not have some of the resources or feasibility to execute on some of those things?
Alex: Yeah. And I think the main issue there, I don’t think that the technology or that the marketing technology, um, Is where it needs to be for building these websites for vacation rental companies or hosts.
Alex: I think a lot of what you get when you purchase things, it’s kind of like an out of the box system. It’s very templated and you know, we were in a very unique position that we Built our own property management system. We built our own website. We built our own revenue management tools, our own CRM. So we had development resources at our fingertips, which certainly allowed us to do a lot more than a traditional host or company would be able to.
Alex: Um, but. I think too, it’s important that the industry as a whole needs to continue pushing these different providers of those services and platforms to deliver, like, let’s get a little more cutting edge. You know, I think we’re, we’re, we’re doing the basics right now, but could it be better? Could we do things differently?
Alex: Yes. And, you know, that’s, that’s how a lot of these companies operate is, I mean, they, they don’t want to have a bunch of. Yeah. Um, you know, really specific things that are done just for one company and not for the others, because that’s how they scale them is by doing, rolling out the same functionality across all their clients.
Alex: And unfortunately what that ends up is, is you could have, uh, one market where the majority of the property managers are all using the same website platform and they all basically look the same, just with different colors and a logo. And it becomes really hard to differentiate that way. Um, But I, I do think, you know, one of the, the cool things I’ve seen now as in the consultant phase of my career is there are ways to, to still do that stuff.
Alex: Like there’s, there are ways to still use your website company that you might have a long term relationship with, um, still use your internal staff, but there are ways to, and kind of push the envelope and bring on some of the less known technology, which some of the things we did not. Build. We did not build the, the UGC part, but I mean, there are platforms out there that can help you kind of go to that next level, but it’s, if you’re running the business, you don’t necessarily have time to think about all those things.
Alex: Um, so that’s been the fun part of being in the consultant side of working with companies and, you know, working with what they have in a lot of cases, but now bringing in some of these strategies that will allow them to differentiate in their market.
Gil: Yeah, I, I, I make this comparison a lot, but, um, I do find that the hospitality, it’s short term rental industry is very, very similar to what I’m very used to is like the e commerce industry.
Gil: And in e commerce, you mentioned card abandonment, they’ve been doing card abandonment for the last decades. And there’s specific platforms that does card abandonment. And even There’s tracking tools to, to help them make sure that when they’re sending out emails, they are populating all the content with, um, like the personalized recommendation engines, what you’ve actually seen on the website.
Gil: And I reflect back in our industry industry is somewhat lagging behind in many of those regards. Um, I do wish that like over the next few years, things will start to evolve and we do find a lot more innovation in it, but I definitely, I definitely agree with you that we all, we have a lot of catching up to do in our industry.
Alex: Yeah, I, I agree too. And, you know, I think the, the push as far as technology and money that’s been spent in the space over the last few years since COVID has, has really been on, you know, in the property management systems, it’s been in some of like the more core elements of the business and direct bookings always end up.
Alex: There’s like cycles where people, there’s a year when it’s, that’s all the rage and everybody’s talking about, and then kind of falls to the wayside. But then now we’re in that phase again, where this is a very interesting topic for a lot of folks, because they’re not able to get those bookings from the channels like they used to.
Alex: So now with more interest, you know, refocused again on direct bookings, I think you start to see, you know, different perspectives come in and different, um, just, just different efforts to You know try and do things and and that build something more because these you know, the tech companies and the different Investment groups that are coming in.
Alex: I mean, they’re trying to find more ways to Monetize this industry and that’s that’s definitely one that that that can be done better I mean, it’s it’s similar to the hotels. I mean, I think And you look back on the progression of between the airlines to hotels to vacation rentals to I would say activities is probably behind us.
Alex: You know, it’s all followed that same path of the OTAs came in and now it’s like, Oh my gosh, we can, we can book these flights. It’s really easy, but we’re, we’re not. Paying a ton of money in commission. So now we have to, you know, have be pushing guests to book direct on Delta and American right and that vacation rentals.
Alex: It’s the same thing or hotels like
Speaker 3: yeah
Alex: It’s we’ve all been in battle with the otas to one extent or another In the different business models, but now it’s like we’re in that phase for vacation rentals at least these more you know recently formed companies of okay, I do want to have my house on my own land and Now I need to find the right You the right people to seat at the table or platforms or companies, they’re going to enable me to really stand out and be different in my market.
Gil: Yeah. What do you see maybe the next five years? Like what are some of the innovations that you’re really excited to, to see come to light?
Alex: Hmm. I think, uh, I think being able to, Narrow down tech stacks is going to be a pretty big initiative for a lot of companies that if they’ve got, you know, six or seven different providers of services that they’re using and, you know, really looking at, okay, what is the, what, what are the offerings that each of them has and is there overlap?
Alex: In a lot of cases, there’s overlap between. You could be hiring one platform to do this service for you, but your PMS might actually already offer that, but you just haven’t explored it or you don’t think that it’s really that great how it really works. I think there’s going to be more, more just consolidation, um, among the tech companies, or, you know, if it’s a PMS that offers a certain service, they’re going to start making whatever those ancillary things are that they sell better so that you don’t have to keep going to these outside providers.
Alex: Um, There’s really no right or wrong way to, to look at this. I think it can be argued both sides of whether you want to keep it as small as possible, or you want to keep it just completely differentiated because you’re using specialized services for each different part of the business. But at the end of the day, it has to be manageable and has to be profitable.
Alex: And the profitability part is key because you know, if, if you’re managing properties, if you don’t own the properties, your margins are. That’s what you have to be looking at. I mean, if you’re making 15 to 20%, you can’t keep buying every different service that comes down the line. That’s, you know, a percentage of revenue or a dollar amount per property.
Alex: If you’re growing properties that can become a pretty big line item. Um, so I, I think probably the cons the consolidation, the smart consolidation of like what things should still stay separate, what things shouldn’t. Um, I think there was a lot of tech that was built post COVID of. You know, PE money and investment companies and seeing the demand for short term rentals, but buildings, building the things that they thought people need needed, and it’s maybe part of it’s what we needed, but not, not all of it, and it might look really nice because it’s, it’s newer, you know, it’s new, it’s not the older technology that’s been around for a long time, but there’s a lot of technology that has been around for a long time that is much more.
Alex: Intrinsically connected to the needs of the property managers and the companies that are using it. So I think that’s the other side of the consolidation and like the innovation that will happen is, you know, getting those platforms together, whether there’s acquisitions or they roll up, but like getting that next level usability in front of the hands of the property managers, but with the understanding of, you know, why things have to work the way that they do, you know, from.
Alex: Very many nuances that exist in this business and running the day to day operations.
Gil: Yeah. Yeah. I hear you on that one. I, I, I think just even like the last 24 months, I’ve seen a lot of new entrants come into the market and they’re trying to solve different pieces of the puzzle. Um, And I think even the PMSs, they’re starting to expand, like AI messaging, for instance, example, like I’ve seen lots of companies come up more recently that do AI messaging and they specifically only do that.
Gil: Um, and then also PMSs that are heavily investing into AI messaging as well too. And I’m interested in seeing, like, do we continue to see some of these, um, single point solutions? Do they thrive or do. Uh, operators much prefer and the PMSs can, um, continue to execute on really building out really good tools for, for folks.
Alex: Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree with you. It’s going to be an interesting few years just as the last few years have been interesting that you know, there’s we’re a very Um as it’s an established industry. It’s been around a lot longer than a lot of people think I mean Renting properties is something that’s happened, you know since the early 1900s if you go back over, you know to Overseas, but um the technology that comes with it is that’s really the the newer You That’s why it seems like it’s this new thing, but short term rentals have been around for a very long time.
Alex: And it’s, um, it’s, it’s exciting to see how much things have changed. And I mean, I, I, when I first started at condo world, all of our, all of our keys were hanging on the wall, you know, in the office, I mean, there’s, there’s nothing digital and, and actually a large amount of those keys were. Keys are probably still hanging on that wall because there’s some condo associations that don’t allow for digital locks.
Speaker 3: So,
Alex: you know, but if you look back at, you know, some of the other things we did back then, I’m like, gosh, it’s just, it’s night and day. You go to a conference now and there’s, uh, God, I don’t even know, probably 150, 200 vendors in the, in the supplier hall, there used to be maybe 10. So it’s just exploded, but.
Alex: A lot of fun.
Gil: Yeah, I’m definitely very interested and very excited to see what happens over the next five years and how the world is, how our industry is going to really, really change in that, in that time period. Yeah, I agree with you. Um, Alex, what do you, for folks that are on the smaller side, you mentioned niching down on paper, paper clicks.
Gil: Um, are there any specific tactics that You would advise smaller hosts, uh, with maybe tighter budgets or smaller inventories. What do you, what are the big critical things that they really need to invest into early on?
Alex: I think, I mean, really getting clear on if you’re, if you’re building this, that you want it to be a And there’s two different sides.
Alex: So if you’re building this, that you want it to be a company that you either are, you own the inventory and you want to be owning more inventory, or you want to be managing additional properties for somebody else, you really need to be looking at this, uh, in the perspective of you’re building a brand, if you’re, Content with your one listing.
Alex: I think it’s a different perspective that, you know, the, your brand is that property, if that’s what it’s always going to stay. But if you’re trying to manage, um, or own more properties and rent them, you have to be building a brand early on and, you know, taking a deep dive into, um, what, what you want to, what do you, what do you want it to be known for?
Alex: I mean, what’s going to be the differentiator In your market, what is the core message? What are the personas that you’re trying to attract and how do you talk to them differently and what tactics that you’re going to use to talk to them? Um, I think even from whether it’s a large company or a small company, the communication of how you’re.
Alex: Talking to these guests and the process of how you are getting them the information, but also making sure that their stay is, is, is exactly what they expected it to be is really important. And that’s one of the foundations of any brand. And it makes me think of the quote, you know, it’s not what, it’s not what you say that people remember.
Alex: It’s, it’s, it’s not what you say. It’s not what you say that people remember. It’s how you made them feel. And it’s really true. And when you leave people feeling frustrated, um, that like they don’t have the right information, that the property was not what they thought it was going to be, the experience was not what it was supposed to be.
Alex: Um, you’re not going to get a good group of people coming back to be your repeat customers. And you’re, as you’re building the, the first customers that you get are really important because hopefully they are leaving you great five star reviews and they’re giving you great feedback. You know, photos and content from their stay that that’s going to enable you to build the brand that you want to be.
Alex: But, um, and that, you know, to loop things around, that was part of why happy guest was so interesting to me because it does solve for a lot of the pain points that I’m seeing on the communication, just really not. Not sounding like it’s coming from the heart of the brand, um, and just really frustrating guests in that process.
Alex: So I think early on, you want to really focus on your messaging, how you’re communicating with guests, what your core message is, who you’re trying to attract to the property. Um, building your listings around those personas that, and you mentioned that earlier too, Gil, that’s really important. Um, and that’s, that’s how you’ll start building up a nice business there.
Gil: Yeah. Yeah. Specifically on the last part, I, even as a host that is starting to kind of scale up my portfolio, my personal portfolio, I now, now that I know kind of who my guests, who my avatars are, um, I almost have to, my buy box has actually shrunk quite a bit because now I’m tailoring my property towards young families.
Gil: And if I find a property that is outside that box, I can, I can no longer buy it because that means that. It will go beyond my brand or outside of my brand.
Alex: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s, that’s a great point. And yeah, I see this a lot on, um, the company, the companies that I work with is that they’re looking at the properties that could potentially come onto their program if they are.
Alex: Trying to be a high end luxury brand, but they’re in a market where they’re getting leads for properties that they’re not bad properties But they just they don’t fall into that high end Category, you know, what do you do in that situation? Do you bring them under as like a sub category of that main brand and you just really clearly communicate that?
Alex: These are the budget friendly properties, but that You know, then clearly designate the luxury oceanfront. Um, and it’s the same thing for you. So if you have properties that are really mostly suited to, um, families with young children, but you know, you do bring on a property that might be better for my husband and I, when we travel, it’s, it’s just about how that’s.
Alex: You know, presented on, on your website, if that makes sense. And I’ve seen it done different ways that some companies they’ll start a whole different brand if they’re really trying to segment it that much. Um, so it’s, there’s a, there’s really no right or wrong way to do it. Um, I think there’s a lot of different strategies behind that, but it’s an important thing to think about.
Gil: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think we’ve, we’ve went pretty deep in, in, All things direct bookings. Um, was there anything else that you want to leave our guests with in particular to tips, strategies, tactics?
Alex: Uh, I’ve been just, I would say one of the best things you can do is just be open to information and, you know, listening to podcasts like this.
Alex: Um, it’s. It’s, it’s easy to find different people within the space that have been where you are. And I think our industry as a whole is very, um, open and communicative, uh, sharing group that, you know, if, if you can find somebody or listen to one thing that is going to get you To make a decision that if you had made the other decision, you’re going to end up wasting time and years and money trying to figure out, I mean, you can, you can build your business a lot more quickly.
Alex: So, I mean, just, just being open to listening to information consuming content and knowing that you’re not alone. Like it can, Probably feel like it’s, you’re, you’re by yourself out there when you’re trying to figure these things out. But there’s a world of information out there. And I think the hosts that are doing the best as they get started, they’re really just immersing themselves in the resources that are there and just trying to learn them in the, whether it’s a new host or a new company or an older company, there’s something that everybody can learn from each other.
Alex: And I think that’s, that is one of the fun parts of podcasting is being able to see. You know, just different perspectives where you might not necessarily in your hometown, talk to an individual host or a company, depending on which one you are on a regular basis, but you can be listening to podcasts that you hear perspectives of all those people.
Alex: And they could say something that completely changes your business.
Gil: Yep. Yeah, I, I a hundred percent agree with you. And I, I think that. We are very fortunate to be in an industry where we all come from very different backgrounds and everybody comes into this industry with kind of the goals of like financial freedom and so on, but they have a special skill set or they they’re part of an environment and they may attack different problems in many different ways and kind of to your point, These podcasts, networking events, it really helps open the doors on all the different things that people are doing to be successful in the industry and learning from others that have done well in their specific niche is, is really good.
Gil: And we’re all really good about sharing it. Like, I don’t think that any host considers another host. a competition, even if it’s the person next door to them.
Alex: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that. I mean, it’s, it’s much better when you can be learning from other people, even if they technically could be your competition, but it’s, it it you’ll get far more from being open and sharing and, uh, just building a community of people around you that also feel the same way.
Alex: 100%.
Gil: Awesome. Alex, I usually end with two questions. I think you may have answered one pretty, pretty well already. If you can use a different one, but, uh, one’s a mindset question and one’s a kind of a big takeaway one. Um, the first question is, uh, what’s one piece of mindset advice that you would give to someone that is trying something completely new?
Alex: Hmm. Well, let’s see. I, you know, I, I would also, I would add in what I just, what I just mentioned. I think if you’re trying something new, you want to learn everything about it. So immersing yourself in resources and content of people that have done it before. That’s a great strategy. I think the other thing is, uh, just knowing that You know every step that you take is while in the moment you might not know You might not see that long term you might know you might know your vision But you might not understand why each step that you’re taking is happening for a specific reason You do learn that it’s the steve jobs quote of you You can’t connect the dots until you’re farther enough ahead to be able to look back and see why those things happen And if some things fail, it’s okay Like you you don’t know until you’ve Tried something new, what is going to work or what could be done better?
Alex: Or maybe it just wasn’t a good, good idea at all. And you decide you’re not going to do it anymore. Um, but you have to try. And I’ve certainly found that just initially in my consulting business that I, you know, got into this very experienced within the world of vacation rental marketing, but started this business.
Alex: And I. Got a lot of, um, referrals very quickly and a lot of business and had to kind of take a step back and say, okay, now I have to really systemize how I’m going to do this going forward that I’ve quickly learned the things that do work and don’t work and, and how I’m able to, you know, be as impactful as possible for the clients that hire me.
Alex: And just, you know, needed to streamline some of my operations. And that’s been a fun, fun part that it wasn’t, you know, terrible disastrous learnings, but you, you have to try things in order to be able to figure out what needs to be improved. And the more you can push yourself, the more. It’s the more uncomfortable you are, the better and the faster you’re going to grow and learn.
Alex: And sometimes you just have to put yourself out there and do it. And that’s how the best learnings and the, and the most confidence comes back to you.
Gil: That’s awesome. All right, Alex, last question. What’s one strategy or tactic that you would advise our guests to really take Take home today and start to think about or implement.
Alex: I would say, I mean, looking at your guest communication, I think that’s probably, it is, it’s one of the biggest, but also one of the simplest things that people can, can do no matter what platform or strategy that you’re using, but go back and, you know, Book a property on your website, go book your listing on Airbnb or Verbo, just put your credit card in.
Alex: And even if you have to pay one night to Airbnb, it’s okay. It’ll be worth it. Pretend like you’re the person on the other end and see what that path is of how. How things are working right now, or even better have somebody that, you know, somebody that is not good with technology, somebody that typically will argue against you whenever you show them something, have somebody else do it and get their feedback and just see, okay.
Alex: In your mind, you might think it makes sense, or you might not have even really put a whole lot of thought to some of the, those different things that happen in the process, but it will be a good exercise. I know in my years at Condo World, I mean, we tested our website every day. I mean, we did a, a, a fake booking every single day just to make sure everything was working because we learned early on too, that it’s like, you You know, when you kind of get a sense something could be wrong, typically there is, and there’s a lot of things that can break between all these different systems that everybody uses.
Alex: So making sure that your website, your PMS, your revenue management, whatever the different platforms are that you’re using are connected and working properly, you really should be doing that at minimum on a monthly or quarterly basis. You’re using a lot of different things that you’re investing money in for marketing.
Alex: I mean, it’s, it’s worth it to go through that effort and, and document what those things are that you test, even if it’s your, the forms on your, on your website, like this contact form, when it’s filled out, it goes to this email and like keep a running list of how all those things are supposed to perform.
Alex: So then that way, You might have one person that checks that for you right now. But if you hired somebody else, now they’ve got that SOP of the things that are continuously need to be checked, you know, on the site, Google analytics. I mean, all those things, just making sure everything is, is connected and working properly.
Gil: Yeah, I agree with you on that one. It was just hearing you say all the different tools. Kind of reminds me of back what you’re saying about consolidation. I do think that probably over the next few years, we’ll consolidate some of these services because I think probably like you, I’m, I’m using maybe a half dozen, if not more different services together just for that and a whole entire guest journey.
Gil: And it’s a lot of different checkpoints that you’d have to go through.
Alex: Yeah. Yeah. It can be overwhelming. And sometimes you don’t remember why you bought the one that you bought a couple of years ago, but now you see something else and you buy something new and then it’s like, well, wait, this does the same or the other thing I bought a couple of years ago now offers this.
Alex: So it’s like, you know, almost like an annual audit of all your tech is definitely another takeaway. I would suggest.
Gil: Absolutely. All right, Alex, um, how can folks learn more about you, follow you and kind of follow along your journey?
Alex: Sure. Um, so my LinkedIn, Alex, my last name’s Husner, H U S N E R. Um, my podcast website is, uh, alexandanniepodcast.
Alex: com. Um, those are probably the two best ways to reach out for Um, for that, or for happy guests, if anybody’s interested in learning more about that, um, the URL is happy guest referrals. com slash simplified. We had a link made for the show today, but yeah, we’d love to reach, we’d love to chat with anybody.
Alex: And, um, I always love meeting new people. And a lot of times we meet people that we have come on our podcast too. So happy to chat with anybody.
Gil: Awesome. I’ll be sure to add all the, all the links into the show notes. Alex, are you going to any conferences later on this year?
Alex: Yep, uh, we’ll be going to VRMA International in Phoenix in October.
Alex: Um, also DARM, the Data and Revenue Management Conference, that’s in Destin in December. And actually, Annie and I were asked to go to the Scale Italia conference in Italy. in November, um, and be set up with our podcast booth there. So we’re definitely excited about that one. That’ll be my first time going overseas and, uh, should be an awesome experience.
Gil: Awesome, Alex. It was really good having you on the show. I, I really enjoyed you sharing all your knowledge from working with really big property management companies and really helping us kind of distill down the necessary pieces that we have to think about as we scale up our portfolio. So thank you, Alex.
Alex: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me, Gil.
Gil: All right. Thank you. Bye.