Navigating the Future of Short-Term Rentals: Trust, Personalization, and Direct Bookings with Leo Walton from Superhog

Highlights and Key Takeaways

Building Trust in the Industry

One of the standout topics was the role of trust-building in short-term rentals. SuperHog, a leader in de-risking bookings, emphasizes the importance of fostering trust between guests and hosts. In today’s market, creating a professional and secure booking process is crucial for direct bookings. This trust not only enhances the guest experience but also boosts the reputation of the host and the platform.

The Evolution of Short-Term Rentals

The short-term rental industry has evolved significantly from its origins of basic accommodations. Today, hosts are curating highly personalized and memorable experiences, going beyond mere lodging to offer unique, customized stays. This shift reflects a broader trend towards more bespoke travel experiences, where guests seek more than just a place to sleep—they want an immersive experience.

The Rise of Direct Bookings

Looking ahead, direct bookings are predicted to surge in popularity over the next 5-10 years. To capitalize on this trend, hosts must focus on building a strong brand and narrative around their properties and destinations. Direct bookings offer a chance to create a more personal connection with guests and differentiate oneself in a crowded market.

Marketing and Social Media Strategies

Marketing strategies are evolving, with a growing emphasis on showcasing the entire experience rather than just property features. Social media is a powerful tool for attracting guests and crafting a compelling narrative around stays. By highlighting local attractions and unique experiences, hosts can better engage potential guests and create a buzz around their properties.

Google’s Role in Vacation Rentals

Our podcast also touched on the current limitations of Google Vacation Rentals and its potential future impact. While Google has made strides in the vacation rental space, there is still room for improvement in terms of integration with property management systems and optimization tools. Addressing these gaps could significantly enhance the visibility and efficiency of vacation rental listings.

Personalization and Curation

Personalization continues to be a key trend, with hosts increasingly curating unique experiences and activities for their guests. Technology, including AI, plays a growing role in this personalization, helping hosts offer tailored recommendations and enhance the overall guest experience.

Challenges and Opportunities

Hosts face the challenge of balancing scalability with a personal touch in guest communications. Understanding the target market and local attractions is essential for creating meaningful connections and ensuring a memorable stay. Despite these challenges, there are numerous opportunities to enhance guest experiences and drive more direct bookings.

Industry Trends

The travel industry is witnessing a shift from repeat visits to the same locations towards more diverse and aspirational travel experiences. Social media influences travel choices and destination popularity, making it crucial for hosts to stay ahead of these trends and adapt their strategies accordingly.

The Importance of Thoughtful Hospitality

Finally, even as the industry scales, the importance of thoughtful, personal hospitality cannot be overstated. Creating welcoming, memorable experiences for guests, with subtle touches that show attention to detail, is essential for standing out in the competitive short-term rental market.

Transcription

Leo: Every property manager knows they need to have a risk management strategy. And by that, I mean, as I’m not just saying, you know, buy our product far from it, I’m saying you understand as a property manager and a host, what market you’re in, what the risks are. Are you in a party market? Are you in a market where you might have people refusing to leave?

Leo: You know, drugs, all that sort of stuff, you understand your market implicitly. So you create a risk management strategy. And if you didn’t create a risk management strategy, you’d get your homes damaged all of the time. So we’re just helping facilitate and be part of people’s risk management strategy. So that is a very evolving thing.

Gil: Hey folks, welcome back to direct booking simplified where we break down the strategies and tactics to win in direct bookings on today’s show. I have Leo from super hog. Leo. Welcome to the show.

Leo: Thanks. It’s so nice to be here.

Gil: Yeah. It’s great to have you. We’ve been chatting for a long while now back since I think we met at a wealth con.

Leo: It’s been a while, hasn’t it? Yeah, I, I must say it’s, um, I guess we’re both in the, in the sort of, uh, cave, aren’t we busy building our businesses? And so we, we touch base and chat every month. And it’s always great to hear how things are going on, on your side of things. So yeah, I’m, uh, excited to come and do this and speak to your audience.

Leo: Absolutely. So,

Gil: Yeah. Yeah. Well, before we get too deep into it, do you mind giving folks a introduction on who you are?

Leo: while, uh, while Gil was meeting me, um, my name is Leo Walton. I’m the One of the co founders and I’m the chief of staff at SIPPOG. Um, we’re a trust and safety risk management toolkit, providing protection and, uh, risk management solutions to the short term rental space. I’m a short term rental junkie as well.

Leo: I’ve been in the industry since 20. 11 not to age myself too much, but yeah, 2011 I was part of one of the, um, part of one of the businesses that kind of property management businesses that grew up and was sold to one of the hotel groups. So I was part of the team at one fine stay that went through that mass growth of signing up a lot of homeowners, growing into a lot of cities and then selling, selling out to act to the hotel group.

Leo: So yeah, I’ve got deep roots in the industry and I love it. I love it. And that when you and I met Gil, it was more, we shared a passion for the industry rather than talk business. I think for the first, for the.

Gil: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s, it’s really good meeting you and be able to chat through like, Um, kind of getting into it, like, can you kind of give folks a brief introduction on like, what’s like, you’ve mentioned a little bit about super hog. Um, can you, can you introduce like kind of why super hog was even founded in the first place and like, what problem it was trying to solve?

Leo: Sure. Yeah. And it’s always, let me say this as well. It’s a moving target, right? We’re relentlessly pursuing product market fit within this industry because it’s changing so rapidly. And first of all, let me say, you have to be listening to your customers the entire time. And that’s what we’re now at a point where we’re, we’re much bigger clearly than when we started.

Leo: We’ve got a lot more customers and we have to be listening to what their wants and needs are as the industry continues to evolve. But why we originally set out on the mission was, um, exists to de risk bookings in the short term rental space. So Humphrey Bowles, Andrew, um, Andrew Bolt, two, two of my co founders met in around 2017, and they made an insurance business called Guard Hog, specifically to provide lines of short term rental cover for UK hosts and property managers only, um, And not long after that, they were providing this protection doing fine, you know, line of cover does.

Leo: Okay. And then suddenly have a party really, you know, huge, huge payout. Suddenly have, um, uh, an issue that could have been avoided. Had you been using screening technology big payout and. Very quickly, they realized that they wanted to create software to actually de risk the whole process, not just deal with problems once they’d already occurred.

Leo: And that’s where I came into the mix as well, because I’d known Humphrey from our days at One Fine Stay together. I was working, done a lot of business development within the industry and, and, and was very connected through my, my One Fine Stay experiences. So I joined and. The purpose then of what we were trying to do was create as comprehensive a screening toolkit as we could to make sure that we mitigated the risk of damage up front and left, hopefully, only those little bits and bobs of accidental damage.

Leo: Um, that, that can occur whether you screen a guest or not, but that whole thing has evolved hugely. So, you know, I don’t know. I might want to pause there and you might have asked me some more questions about it. I don’t know, but like as I say the when we started people didn’t know what guest screening was they could guess but they didn’t Know people didn’t know what super hog was now.

Leo: It’s uh It’s a very much plug and play. These are the types of checks I want to do. Can you facilitate them? Yes, we can. Can you take a damage waiver or a deposit from my guest? Can you, can you help with this, that and the other? It’s, it’s a much, the industry’s grown up, grown up hugely.

Gil: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like, would it, would it be safe to say like your mission really there is like to make sure that the host is protected when they’re, when, when they’re letting their doors open to other hosts to stay with them and you’re thinking about all the different things of really making sure at one, like the, the guests, the right guest is staying with you.

Gil: And two, if there were things that happen on an accidental basis that you’re really covering the, the host there.

Leo: That’s it. And there’s a few, a few things like, you know, for me, it’s about, you want to help build trust between good guests and good hosts. So, We’re facilitating the building of trust because your screenings are really big deterrent to somebody that’s coming to have a party, like sell drugs, you know, use, use it as a place to film when they’ve only said they’re going to come for a booking, it’s a real deterrent because people don’t want to put their names, their IDs, all of the different checks you can do to things like that.

Leo: So, so, so that really helps. And there’s a, um, a rush, a Russian proverb that was, Made popular by Reagan, I think in the eighties, which is trust, but verify. And that’s that. And that’s like that. What? That’s why I feel we’re trying to do. We’re trying to facilitate the building of trust by allowing people to verify who each other are.

Leo: And every property manager knows they need to have a risk management strategy. And by that, I mean, and I’m not just saying, you know, buy our product far from it. I’m saying you understand as a property manager and a host, what market you’re in, what the risks are. Are you in a party market? Are you in a market where you might have people refusing to leave you know, drugs, all that sort of stuff.

Leo: You understand your market implicitly. So you create a risk management strategy. And if you didn’t create a risk management strategy, you’d, you’d, you’d get your, um, you’d get your homes damaged all of the time. So we’re just helping facilitate and be part of people’s risk management strategy. So that is a very evolving thing.

Leo: You know, when I, when we first started Superhawk, everybody wanted an ID check. Now people see ID checks as being something that, that. You can tricks. They want to go deeper in specific types of checks. There’s also the regulatory landscape, which we might come on. So I don’t know, but certain States are mandating certain types of checks.

Leo: So clearly that’s something that hosts need to be compliant. So yeah, it’s, it’s changed dramatically, but what stayed the same is when something goes wrong, You be an accident, piece of accidental damage, or someone walks into a property is good, honest person, but just has too much to drink and ends up damaging it, falling over, spilling red wine.

Leo: You have a mechanism for making sure that you’re not out of pocket. And that’s where the protection element of Superhug comes in as well.

Gil: Yeah. You mentioned something very interesting. You mentioned building trust and the way that I interpret maybe the way that you’re phrasing it and please correct me if I’m wrong as you don’t see it as one sided. You’re not saying like building trust between the You’re not transferring trust from the guest over to the host where the, the host really understand who’s the guest is, but it’s also bi directional meaning by like, you actually want the guest staying there to understand that the host is really going to take care of them as well too.

Gil: Did I, did I pick that up

Leo: much so. Yeah, very much so. That that’s, I think in a nutshell, that’s, that’s how everybody wins, right? Is that this guest goes through the process and they’re given a safe, they might, in the journey, they might be asked to provide details to either pay a security deposit or a waiver. They’re asked to provide details in a safe and professional way.

Leo: You know, at this point, you then have their mobile phone number. So you can call them, you can make that personal connection with them. And very often we’ll find that people start working with us when they’re at the point of wanting to build their own direct booking website, because they want the journey to feel very personal and feel very, um, you know, thought out.

Leo: So it is, we’re trying to. build trust. And also, we have our hosts can choose to add products into that journey that that their guests can buy around, making sure that if something breaks, you know, during a booking that they can be relocated to a hotel or, you know, so, so it definitely is. It definitely is a two sided thing, because, um, Uh, it’s not, we’re not just, it’s not just building a process whereby the very small percentage of bad guests are put off far from it.

Leo: It’s creating a journey where the 99. 5 percent of great guests are able to, are able to go through it and, and, and feel like they’re being looked after by a professional host, we white label everything so that the host puts their branding at the center of it as well.

Gil: Yeah. And I believe like SuperHawk also works with some of the OTAs as well, too, if I remember correctly. Yeah.

Leo: We, we, we have direct to OTA products. Correct. So we’ll, we’ll, we’ll provide screening and protection products that, that allow them in the background to get, um, through, through an API, a score on whether a guest is, is using real information or not, and then we can also provide a level of protection behind that booking.

Leo: So that’s exactly right. We provide that to OTAs primarily, but also some PMSs that are dabbling in that, dabbling in that, um, website building or dabbling in the, uh, the guest portal kind of landscape. We do it. And as a guest pointed products as well. We’re, um, yeah. Cancellation, check in, problems at check in, all that type of thing.

Gil: Yeah. Yeah. What do you see? And you can kind of speak on like, behalf of like SuperHawk, but also yourself, like, where do you see the industry going in terms of like building trust and what are some of the big gaps that you’re interested in seeing, like where it translates to where, where, where it’s going?

Gil: Yep. Yep.

Leo: I think given, given the, um, OTA landscape, I think Google’s clearly going to get more involved and it’s going to be more about ensuring that your website has the right amount of hits and, um, Organic, organic views and things of that nature, things that you would know a lot more about than me to make sure that you’re well positioned to get more direct bookings.

Leo: And also if you add AI into the mix there, people searching for something, not necessarily as they do today, but searching for it on the internet. On one of the AI search tabs might just bring them to your website rather than always necessarily going through the OTA. It doesn’t mean the OTA is not going to exist, but I think that we’re clearly in a, we’re clearly in a state of flux.

Leo: So one thing I always think people need to be prepared for is ensuring that you’re very aware that. You, you are, you need a diverse, um, mix of marketing channels when it comes to channels, but you also need to work on your own, your own channel too, because you can’t miss out on that rising tide that that’s going to come from AI and you know, if you do it now, if you type in, I don’t know, two weeks in Provence house with a pool, two kids in a high chair, it will ping things up and it, and it won’t necessarily ping things just from the OTAs.

Leo: It will ping things based on that, you know, this better than I. So I think, I think that’s. In the context of trust, that’s very important because then it becomes about brand building. And right now in the, in the heavily OTA dominated landscape, that’s far less important because clearly the OTA is the brand where that ceases to be the case.

Leo: It is about creating that narrative around your stays, your properties, your part of the world. And I think that’s really exciting as an industry because it’s almost taking us back to a place That existed before the OTAs where people would be more connected to the property they were, they were staying in and think about who the host was and think about who the local company or individual host was, who was managing that experience.

Leo: And, and I think we’re going to go back to that. And it, one thing that always like really makes me shudder is when people describe our industry. By describing it by using the name of an OTA, because it really dehumanizes what’s what’s actually happened there, right? You’ve been hosted by a human being or a company who’s tried to make sure you’ve got a really lovely crafted experience that might include a welcome hamper and might include all those touches.

Leo: But again, I think the time for that is coming. So I think. I think, I think people should be focusing on it because if you can, you will, you will get the better rankings on search terms. You will get the better hits on your website and you will grow more, you grow more organically, I think.

Gil: Yeah. I think that’s a, that’s actually a really good point. Like I’ve seen, and I haven’t been hosting for, for all that long. And I think three years is actually a very short timeframe because like, if you think about hosting, it’s been happening for, for many, many decades. And I agree with you that in the last maybe like 10, 15, maybe 10 years, eight to 10 years, like the OTAs have really picked up a lot of steam.

Gil: And a lot of folks that were, So traditionally on just direct, that’s, that’s where it was like a decade ago. And a lot of new folks are now going on OTAs. And that’s where a lot of the revenues are coming from. Almost a hundred percent of the revenue are coming from OTAs. But at the same time, the caliber of hosts that have been coming on have been far better than anything we’ve seen before.

Gil: The types of experiences that our hosts are really like committing to, how they think about the amenities, the things that they put in their properties, the way that they design it. It’s. and you’re having a lot of folks really care about the experience, care about the, the guest experience. And you’re right that like people walk away and they think like, Oh, I just stayed at an Airbnb and like, they forget that. Like, no, I just stayed at a place that was really well crafted. The branding was all over the place, but that ends up, that wine really ends up getting blurred.

Leo: And I agree. And you think about the initial, maybe this wasn’t the case in the U S but certainly in Europe, you would go instead of a holiday rental, let’s call it in Europe, probably for the same week in August that your family always went on holiday. And you’d maybe even bring your own bed sheets in the car because none of that stuff would be provided for you.

Leo: And, and, and you would have to probably clean when you arrived and clean when you left. So it’s, it, it’s, it’s. It felt very sparse in many respects. Now, you know, when it’s, when it’s right. And when someone does it properly, it’s the complete opposite experience. And you can really feel transported into that local community quite quickly.

Leo: We were just away in the Cotswolds at the weekend and the host. The host just got it right. Like, you know, it wasn’t, it wasn’t too much, but there was a little bit of welcome stuff. There was a lot of personal care in how they put the house together. They knew we were traveling with our kids. They put the toys out, there was a turtle in the back garden that they could feed.

Leo: You know, like it was, it was amazing. And then whenever you asked them a question about the property or the local area, they were, the reply was, you know, within five, 10 minutes every time. And that’s, That’s amazing. And if for us as a family, that’s a much more elevated experience than we would get in a hotel because we could have the freedom to do what we wanted and cook our own breakfast and do that sort of stuff.

Leo: So when it’s pointed right, and that care and attention goes into it. Wow. I mean, nothing beats our industry. I think that’s why so many of us that work in this industry are so passionate about it because when it’s, when it’s done correctly, it’s an amazing, it’s an amazing experience, um, for, for people.

Leo: But again, That goes back to the care and attention. It goes back to my point about trust being a two way street, you know, find out why your guest is coming. And then you can, then you can suggest things to them. You can, it was the anniversary. You can leave champagne in the fridge. If they’re traveling with kids, you leave the toys out.

Leo: You know, it’s, it’s the care and attention that, that they found all that out about us in the pre checking process, and then they delivered for us during the stay and it was, it was very impactful.

Gil: Yeah. Yeah. It makes me think about like where direct bookings is. And I think like one of the things that I think it probably is missing is, and I think maybe other folks are working on it, but in direct bookings, you really, Um, I see, uh, when you, when you book direct, usually communications either happening through text phone or through emails where an OTA, you have a very like centralized chat.

Gil: Uh, and I, I wonder like how that’s going to evolve over the next decade because I think about the experience. I think about like. You mentioned what the check in process was like, did everything meet their, meet their needs. And I think the OTAs does a really good job at making sure that they have centralized communications, they have good check in procedures, they have everything all centralized.

Gil: From a direct booking standpoint, there is, I feel like there’s still a gap unless you’re a like a big Casa or an Avon stay that has the technology to deploy. Some of that is actually missing from our industry. I don’t know if you agree, or if you’ve seen other people that do it, do it really well at scale.

Gil: Yeah.

Leo: I think you’re right. I think you’re right. The challenge is doing it at scale. The challenge is providing that without the necessary tools, the necessary tools available to support. Those comms, my, my suggestion is always pick up the phone, uh, send a text message, but, but of course at scale, that is, that is definitely challenging.

Leo: Um, I think probably it’s done better by your larger property managers who have direct traffic to their website. You know, certainly in Europe, I know, I know providers who are at like 90 percent direct bookings. And so they, they’ve got their system on lock and, but it’s, it’s, then it’s quite. Human capacity intensive, right?

Leo: You have to, you have to have a whole team dedicated to, to, to doing it. So you’re right. You’re probably right. And there is an opportunity there for, for someone to build bits and bobs of technology that can, that can help allow, help people do it without needing a whole army of people behind them to, to, to create and craft that experience, but yeah, maybe that’s why, but maybe that’s the beauty of the, maybe that’s the beauty of the, the direct booking through the local host or local company is the fact that it is more handheld.

Leo: Personal hospitality. It is a phone call. It is something that’s meaningful and you’ve not been able to do it. You’ve not been able to necessarily replicate that scale, but it’s something that you’re able to do where you just take a bit of time to make that person feel very welcome. I suppose I still feel like. That goes a long way and, and shouldn’t be forgotten in the, in the pursuit of scalability,

Gil: Yeah. Yeah. I, I constantly think like I, I imagine a world and you probably share the same sentiment that. years forward, I think direct bookings is going to become massively popular and the folks that do find great stays to, to, to go at, they’re going to come year after year. And the first place they look at is not the OTAs as that they’re going to go look at, and they probably get marketed from their, their previous host, uh, to come back with them.

Gil: And I see that, that rise coming in the next 10 years,

Leo: I think. So I think so. And I think, again, it goes back to what’s your niche. What’s your, what are you trying to, um, what type of traveler are you trying to attract? To this part of the world to this particular property type, you know, as, as operators, you have to be obsessed with that. Like, does this home warrant a hot tub or is that a completely dud move?

Leo: Cause people are traveling with their young kids and they never, they never use it. You know, does it need a, does it need wacky art on the wall or does it need something more muted, more, more calm, you know, like getting all that stuff, right. Because then you create the narrative and that’s what people will be searching for.

Leo: And that’s what we’ll, that’s what we’ll bring someone back. So, you know, I think. The challenge with, with a direct book, direct, direct booking is that you probably don’t have thousands of listings. You probably just have four or five or one or 20 or whatever. So getting that, getting that guest to come back into your portfolio is challenging because what’s changed culturally is, is, is.

Leo: And you’ll have to tell me if this was the case in, in, in the, in the U S but what used to be the case in Europe and probably still is in parts of Europe that are more traditional France and parts of Scandinavia is people take the same two weeks off every year and go to the same town and probably go to the same accommodation, probably.

Leo: The same restaurants and use the same route on the motorway to get there every single year, perfectly, perfectly happily. Like that was us in the nineties, right? That was year on year. And you kept going back because if you hit a home run with your accommodation, you wouldn’t bother going, you know, you wouldn’t want to risk it.

Leo: And you’ll one, two week holiday a year. So you just keep doing it. What’s changed now is it’s more travels, more aspirational. I think people want to, people want to arrive in a place and be like, wow, this is something completely new. Look at this amazing ocean view. Look at this amazing mountain view. Look at this cool neighborhood I’m in, in, in this cool city.

Leo: It’s about, it’s more about discovery and it’s aspirational. And then you Instagram it, you put it on social media and everyone kind of jumps all over it. Right. And wants to do the same thing next year. And culturally, culturally that shift has happened in Europe. I don’t know if that’s true of the U. S.,

Leo: but anyway, answer that in a second. But as a property manager, then, you know, it’s a safe bet that if you get someone wants. You, um, you might not get them again, but if you can get them to leave you a positive review on your website directly and the people in the host that you work with review positively, and you’re creating that narrative and maybe there’s some video content on YouTube and all that stuff.

Leo: So using social media, as I’ve just said, that that’s how you will attract. I think that’s how you can attract people, but

Gil: Yeah, I, I think you’re right. There has been a trend and I think some markets do better, better than others. Some, some are annual vacation markets, especially in markets where you have young kids. Uh, like you, you probably know this with young kids, like you want something that’s low stress that you can go do.

Gil: And right before, like sometime in the summer, same around the same time of year, you want to be able to escape with the family and not have to worry about all logistics and everything. So like, I think there are a lot of markets and especially the ones that were, were in, like, were in high, uh, Tourist destinations that are geared towards young families, those will see a lot more repeat visitors, but I completely agree with you that for folks with really like smaller portfolios, where they’re in maybe a handful of different areas, or maybe they have all, all in one area, having that repeat guests come back to you.

Gil: And that’d be the bulk of it can become challenging at some point. Um, I do agree with you also that like, there is this element of like shareability and this like virality effect where if you deliver a really good experience, it starts to percolate through word of mouth and word of mouth could be folks that are actually saying like, okay, this is the link that you should, I visited this link or I visited this place this past weekend.

Gil: You should go there again. But like, I think virality or shareability also comes in a form of like sharing your Instagram, sharing your feeds, leaving back reviews. And that ends up becoming. The, the fuel that starts to charge up more repeat booking or bookings in the future.

Leo: totally, totally. And if you take that to the couple of ways that you can take that is it’s Either, um, uh, eat or be eaten. Right. So, you know, you can accept that your destination is not as Instagrammable as, as others, or you make it as Instagrammable as others and you, you try and drive that, so there’s a famous, uh, sunset in, um, famous sunset location in.

Leo: Santorini, which is one of the Greek islands. You know about this Gil?

Gil: No, I don’t.

Leo: So this is, this is like, you know, you could go on Instagram now on your phone and you could type in Santorini and you would get a million pictures of people at sunset, people kissing, people doing a heart through the sunset. There’s like an archway.

Leo: And there’s negatives to that too, right? Which is over tourism. So these areas get these areas because of the virality of it, these areas then get really saturated, but you know, then the crowd moves on and other, other, other areas have a chance to showcase themselves. Cause some people go, Oh my God, don’t go to Santorini because there’s too many crowds.

Leo: So like you can push people into a new place, but anyway, that, that, that viral effect is real. And if you look back and I’ve seen videos of the reality of that, of those Instagram shots and what it is. Is you’ve got queues of people waiting to take their photo and it’s just this sea of people, right? It’s not tranquil.

Leo: It’s not beautiful. It’s not what well, it’s beautiful. It’s not trying not calm. It’s not relaxed It’s like hundreds of people queuing up to get their sunset pic and have their instagram moment It’s really interesting and I think it just shows you that It’s not necessarily about what’s authentic. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s areas can get positioned in a certain way through, through, through the use of social media.

Leo: So if you live in like a brilliant part of the world, showcase it, right? Because maybe there’s that same brilliant sunset over the lake of Ozarks and that could be the next, and that could be the next Instagram moment.

Gil: Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you there. What’s um, you mentioned Google just now. Um, and I think Google is, um. I think it’s still somewhat at its infancy days. Um, they’ve only been doing Google vacation rentals for 18 months, maybe two years, not that long. And a lot of the OTAs had a lot of challenge, not OTAs, uh, a lot of the PMSs have a lot of challenges getting into Google vacation rentals.

Gil: Where do you see that going? Um, like Google, like changing the landscape in the next two, three years.

Leo: So I think. First, first point is I’m definitely not an expert, but I love to have opinions on, on, on these matters. So, so, you know, you’ll get me talking about this. We could, we’d need a whole other podcast episode on this, but you know, more opinions than, than, than facts here, but their hotel products, lots simpler.

Leo: Right. And it’s a lot easier to make sure that the, the, the quality bar is in place around. Established business, all the different, all the different amenities you can reference. So they, they’ve, they’ve struggled a bit, haven’t they? With the vacation rental space. They’ve just struggled slightly to understand it fully and build the product accordingly.

Leo: Um, in Europe, there’s been some challenges as well around, um, I think it’s like the, the. I, again, I’m not an expert here, but around the, uh, essentially like market competition, uh, laws that have taken place that have happened in the European union parliament that has meant that Google is no longer allowed to show its vacation rentals on its maps on Google maps.

Leo: Um, because it was at, it was, it was, it was, yeah, it was like a anti competition, uh, piece of legislation. So they’ve had some challenges there for sure. But. I think they’ll get it right. And I think they’re probably in the process of getting it right. And I think it’s a good thing for SDR managers because it’s another marketing channel if you use it properly.

Leo: And I think why it’s a real challenge is not, is the obvious it’s because everybody uses Google Chrome because everybody uses Google maps because, um, Uh, there they’ve got the most sophisticated search algorithm and they have the most developers. I’m sure making sure it continues to be brilliantly accurate.

Leo: Um, and let me throw into the mix that they have their own AI, right? So, so they’re, so they’re, they’re very well positioned to take advantage of that market. Um, I’m sure Airbnb will be looking at the AI element too, right? They have to be for, for, to, to, to make sure that they don’t get left behind. Um, so I see.

Leo: I see it as inevitable that they will continue to be a greater force. Will they though be very good at getting in bed and doing integrations or being available for integrations with PM, PMSs and channel managers, you know, that’s where they need to actually invest the time and money into our industry to understand it a bit better.

Leo: And that’s probably the bit that they will do reluctantly and not as well, because, because it’s not how they’re set up to work. And as a, as a. As a secondary point there, this industry is incredible for how much people are willing and up for integrating with one another. And that’s slightly, slightly not the case in other, in other sectors.

Leo: So that’s probably something that is a bit alien to Google. I think.

Gil: Yeah. I think about some of like the core premise around Google, like Google’s like mission was like organizing the world’s data. And what Google has done really well with well with is if you’re searching for something, they will try to elevate the things that you’re searching for and making sure that it’s, The top thing that gets retrieved back.

Gil: Um, so they’ve done that really well in search. They do it well in maps and many other, many other products. I don’t feel like they’ve done the same type of quality in vacation rentals. And I think for me, I believe it’s part of like, they didn’t apply some of the things that they do specifically with SEO, um, into the vacation rentals, really identifying.

Gil: What people are searching for, how they’re searching for and matching that back with property owners of the properties themselves. And I think part of it is that as a property owner on Google vacation rental, you actually don’t have a lot of control over how your pictures are represented, what content you want to, what you want to optimize for.

Gil: There’s actually no way to really optimize for GVR. There’s no tools for optimizing for GVR. Um, like in comparison to how you may do it, like SEO search on, on Google, there’s a lot more tools. There’s keyword searches. There’s ways to add meta descriptions, meta titles, but for GVR, there’s not anything quite like that.

Gil: So it makes it really hard for someone that’s searching for a vacation rental to be matched with that perfect stay. There’s a, there’s a huge lack of, for me, lack of data to help make it a lot easier.

Leo: Yeah. Very interesting. I mean, I, I, I would defer to you on that because I think you’ve probably got, you’ve probably got better insights, better insights than me. So I would. I, I guess for me, I, I still see it as being a matter of time before they get it right. Perhaps you’re, perhaps, perhaps you would say actually they’re just, not a priority for that?

Leo: Like, like why, why then is it not something that they’ve managed to get right to this point?

Gil: The why I don’t quite understand. Um, I know that for, for right now. Google is trying to get as many properties onto the platform as possible. They’re trying to get that data, and so far, I think they’re still learning about the consumers behaviors, how they’re searching for things, how are they actually going to rank things properly?

Gil: Um, if you look at Airbnb’s algorithms, those change quite a bit, and there’s a lot of different variables that come into play where Pretty much no one in the industry really understands like how to actually like hack the algorithm and it’s similar where Google needs to figure out what’s that behavior of someone searching for things?

Gil: What breadcrumbs are they leaving behind? And how do you tie that back to the actual stays so that some you’re matching them one to one and you’re you’re When you’re searching for something, the top 20 listings are something that you really care about. Um, I think that they’re still trying to figure out how to match that buying behavior and I think trying to accumulate as much data as possible to make that a reality.

Gil: Um, I do think that like in the long term and maybe not that long, maybe in the next like four or five years, we’ll actually start to see DVR take off much more than, than it has in the last two years. I hear Folks that have been on GBR for a very long time, and they don’t get many bookings off of it. But I do see that changing in the long run.

Leo: yeah. Interesting. I mean, it’s, we’re still in this phase, aren’t we, as well of, of people heavily skewing towards OTAs. So that, that can’t be, that can’t be, um, ignored either. Right. As in people’s, how, how aware are consumers? That that is a place they can go to browse for, for a, I think, I think that’s probably part of it as well, but I just feel, I just feel it’s inevitable given that pulling power that they will, they’ll probably get it right.

Gil: I mean, yeah, they, they are one of the biggest data consumers out there. They know a lot more about you than you’re probably comfortable with, uh, along with, along with the meta, the meta group. Um, so like, if there’s anyone to find the right stay for you, they’re probably, and they probably know when you’re looking for a state, even before you put in that search, that search query.

Leo: Yeah. I think there’s a lot to learn from Google, right? I think, I think we could all in the industry think about that. I like how you’ve just said that, that they know more about you then, then you’re, you’re probably comfortable with. And I think that, um, I think as STR people, we need to be really obsessed with thinking about who our customer is and what, and what they want.

Leo: That’s, that’s why we’re in a really exciting industry because you can. You could have four different personas interested in one property and have taken different things from it because it’s not a hotel room. It’s a house with lots of different elements to it. And, and on top of that, the fact that you might have multiple listings that have multiple personas interested in them.

Leo: So, yeah, I, I think, I think it’s fascinating. I do. I think it’s a very interesting way for, for, for people to learn what. Again, we just need to be less reliant on, we can’t expect someone else to bring the bookings for us, right? You need to be crafting it so that, so that you’re thinking about who you want and how long, how long you want them staying for and, and being a bit more kind of militant about it.

Gil: Yeah, I think the, the other, the other trend that we didn’t really talk much about, it’s like real, um, social, um, I, I, I will expect that or I expect that in the next few years. And it’s already happening today. You start to discover new places, new places to stay amazing experience. It made me amazing moments through social media.

Gil: That’s where a lot of our consumption is today. And I’ve known some hosts that really figured out how to crack social media and really getting in front of the right audience. Um, too many that’s. Somewhat of a secret or an art that they haven’t quite figured out yet?

Leo: Yeah. From, from my perspective, I think it goes beyond, it goes beyond the accommodation, um, on, on this particular point. Um, maybe it doesn’t, maybe your, your social media shouldn’t even include pictures of your accommodation. Then I, I mean, you, you, you’d probably have a. Well on that, but it should all be focused on experiences that you can have while you’re in destination.

Leo: In my opinion, it’s the, it’s the untapped. There’s obviously revenue you can get from that as well, right? If you link it with apps, apps that connect people that they can have experiences and you can make money from the upsells as a host, but thinking deeper than that, it’s connecting people to, to, to what it is they can do when they’re in stay, like, you know, the skydive, the bungee jump, the hike through the forest.

Leo: I mean, w w would you agree? Do you think that’s more the focus than showcasing the pool in your properties?

Gil: Um, I think that the folks that do really well in terms of leveraging their own social media, like if you look at someone’s specific accounts and the, the, the people that they draw in as followers, they’re usually not posting just their property. And most of them, if they’re posting about their properties, they’re posting about specific moments.

Gil: So there, the descriptions, like any texts on the screen, is really highlighting the moments that you’re gonna get and the feelings that you’re gonna get while staying there. A lot of them also leverage like the scenery, the experiences are nearby things to do in the area. And it’s really like trying to cultivate and try to draw someone in specifically to want to stay in that area and not just specifically that specific property.

Gil: People that nail it and understand how to resonate with their, with their avatars are the ones that are doing really well on their own social medias.

Leo: Yeah, and I think, I think when we all look back, I agree with that, and I think that when we all look back to holidays past, it’s the experiences that you had on the holiday that generally is what makes it the most memorable. So it’s that amazing restaurant, or we went away last summer with some friends and it was the walk through the forest we did, the kids loved and the sea was, sea was howling away in the background. will buy a holiday based on someone painting that picture for us. So we know. So we know and often that’s something that’s missing when you’re browsing a listing on it for an sdr Um or a campsite or something like that Is you can’t quite work out? Exactly how it’s going to be around it when you when when you get there And I think if you can tell that story if you can create that narrative It makes you much more likely I think it makes me much more likely as a customer to buy it because then you can see how it will thread together and and and what you’ll be doing right and it’s funny because If your if your properties are in a Place where there’s lots of things to do around it, then you may only get used for sleeping.

Leo: So, you know, re really, there’s not a lot you can showcase about a property that’s just there to be someone’s base and someone’s bed or where they have a nice breakfast for the family. It is about sharing what’s, what, what goes beyond what goes beyond that.

Gil: You make an interesting point and like, we don’t really talk about too much. Um, it’s really around like helping guests understand our perspective. Yes, understand like how they can make the most out of the area. And I think that that’s probably like an untapped opportunity where you have these Uh, like in the physical world, like my parents want to go somewhere abroad, they would go to a physical shop, a travel agency, and they will sit down with a person and they’ll tell them like, I want to go here.

Gil: These are the dates. These are the things I want to do. And then you have a person that’s curating the entire experience, booking all the tours, booking all the experiences. I haven’t seen any, and I, I’ve seen like Airbnb kind of dabble a little bit into some of those experiences, but there is no one really trying to piece together that perfect stay, try to make it as easy as possible and do it at scale where it’s cost effective for folks.

Gil: I think like, and maybe hosts are, are trying to do that for people that have already booked with them, or they’re doing, doing that through communications on the social media. These are the best things to do, but actually like curating a stay, I haven’t seen that. And I’ve heard folks dabble in that on the AI side.

Leo: there’s some dabbling going on for sure. No, one’s come out to be the leader. Have they in that yet? This, this idea of. Activity planning, trip planning. It’s, um, funny. My, my side, sidebar, my partner, who’s a lawyer, uh, wanted to be a travel agent when she was growing up. So she’d be delighted to hear that still people are going into shops, physical shops and booking their holidays.

Leo: Cause I think she thinks it’s an antiquated profession, but yeah. How do you give someone that handheld experience? Um, You um, and it goes beyond upsells, right? Because I think there are a couple of businesses that are doing really well on this idea of upselling itinerary Like, you know tours tours of the tours of the local caves tickets to the museum Guided hike with a tour guide, you know airbnb have pulled back a lot from experiences, which which tells you something, right?

Leo: They have pulled back quite similarly, which does tell you something but you know it Hey, I think it is a really good revenue stream, but it needs your thought process needs to go deeper than that. Or again, it’s the, it’s the OTA problem. If you just hire a, if you just have a piece of technology that does the upsells for you, you don’t learn anything.

Leo: You’re not curating, you’re not crafting. So I, I think it has to come with what we’ve just been discussing this idea that you’re thinking about what people want to be doing when, when they’re in state. So I think it’s a combination of using right now. And I agree, there should be a company that looks at it in a more curated way.

Leo: There probably is, but they just haven’t become prominent enough yet for us to know about them. But in today’s world, I think as a property manager, it’s, it’s using marketing, it’s using social media. It’s, it’s playing on your local area and then it’s using a business. Most likely that something that wraps around it, where you, where you can monetize and recommend experiences to people, because hotels have realized this, haven’t they hotels have known this for a long time, get guests to come is one thing, getting, getting more dollars out of them when they’re.

Leo: Already in the door is, it’s clearly very important for them. And they can do that very easily through fruit, food and beverage, but also the concierge booking tickets for people. We as SDR people need to also be thinking about that. Like, but it can’t just be that your guest feels that your hand is in their pocket the whole time.

Leo: It needs to be, you curate that, you create that, curate that whole thing.

Gil: Yeah. And I think that there’s, I’ve seen a few new companies pop up more recently, um, like the host co mount and there’s a few others that are trying to kind of piece that together. So I, I think, I definitely think that like, there’s, An opportunity, you can call it a gap or whatever. But I do see like next few years, this will transform along with how Google is thinking about leveraging the right stays.

Gil: Um, I see a lot of that really taking shape and evolve, like how we operate as, as operators and the moments that we create for our, our guests.

Leo: Yeah, I agree. And also I just want the host in Santorini to tell me to avoid going to doing it, going and doing a sunset picture. Cause actually it’s rubbish. The other side of the island, because no one’s there. I used to have a beautiful meal in a quiet restaurant with my partner, just looking at the sea.

Leo: You know, that’s, that’s why I need my short term rental house to be doing for me in Santorini.

Gil: Yeah. Yeah. I think some hosts really nailed that. And actually nowadays, a lot of us really nailed that. And they understand that it’s not just about opening your doors, making sure they have a clean place to stay, but really that they’re there to have a great time. And it’s almost your responsibility to make sure that they do so that they book with you again.

Leo: Yeah, I think, I think, I think that’s right, isn’t it? And again, certain markets have More of an emphasis on it. If there’s only maybe a handful of things that you should do when you come to a destination. Uh, that’s, that’s something to think about. Like we talked about the, the, the idea of rural secluded, like those types of who is that persona?

Leo: What should they do when they’re in, in, in stay? Well, you have to go to this restaurant because if you, you have a week here without going to this restaurant, you’ve missed the best thing in town versus. London where really London’s there for someone to explore. So I do think, I do think, I do think it’s market specific.

Leo: I do think it’s market specific as well. But again, we, we, I always go back to this, but the best thing about short term rental is living like a local. So, you know, giving no matter actually where you are, it’s giving that slight bit of tip type bit of tips and advice that make people feel like they’re, they’re not just following the herd and you’re, you’re, you’re curating that experience to them.

Leo: And that is really what makes, um, short term rental stand out, stand out in my opinion.

Gil: agree with that. Awesome. We covered a lot of, a lot of ground in many different areas. Um,

Leo: was fun. That was fun. I could, I could, I could talk to you all day about this stuff. It’s kind of sparked off, you know, many different thoughts in my mind as well. I wonder if there’s, I wonder if there’s now more we can all be doing to help drive crowds in other directions, right? Maybe over tourism is our next mission.

Leo: How can we prevent it? How can we, how can we stop it?

Gil: Yeah. I think that the, the industry is still in its infancy and it’s going through a huge transformation. Um, and I don’t think that there’s a right way. That hosting should be done. I think that it’s, it’s up for us to really define and our, our guests to really give us feedback on what they’re looking for and how do we make it easier for folks to really enjoy hospitality.

Leo: I think that’s right. I would add that it’s, it’s if people can make it personal and thoughtful. Because you can still do thoughtful, personal at scale. I’m not saying it has to be like fresh fruit and muffins and, you know, a lovely, a lovely host comes to the door with fresh bread and they’re at the apron on and you feel like you’re in, you’re in a 1960s film, but it’s, it’s, it’s.

Leo: It, although that is lovely, that is a lovely experience, but it’s just being thoughtful, making it personal. Let’s finish there, I think, because that, that, that is it, right? It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s making sure that people feel welcome. Um, and, and that’s, and that’s what makes the experience memorable. Like I say, my time in the Cotswolds this last weekend, there wasn’t anything overt.

Leo: It was, it was all very subtle, but all those little things added up to it being, to being a fantastic experience.

Gil: I think that’s, that’s a perfect way to end the show really to, to really understand our guests and making sure that they feel welcomed. Awesome. Awesome, Leo. Before we end, how can folks find out more about you? How can they follow you? How can they get in touch with you?

Leo: Thanks Gil. So, um, find me on LinkedIn, uh, Leo Walton. Find me on Instagram, Leo under superhog, superhog underscore Leo, um, find the business directly superhog official on Instagram, LinkedIn, superhog, um, or email me leo at superhog. com if you’d like to learn more. Um, if you see me at an industry event, come and say, hi, I’m at most.

Gil: Awesome. Awesome. Are you going to the Poconos event in a little bit?

Leo: I’m not, but that sounds wonderful. I must say to explain why I’ve got, I’ve got obviously an older daughter, two, and nearly three and a young newly born son. And so my travel pass has been slightly revoked. My family, my family child has been slightly revoked this year. So I’m, I’m kind of on half. I’m on half measures this year when it comes to travel, but try stopping me next year.

Leo: I’m back. I’m at everything.

Gil: Awesome. Awesome. Alright. I can’t wait to see you at more shows.

Leo: Yeah. You too. You too, buddy.

Gil: Alright, Leo. Thanks again for having you on the show. Have a great day.